Official Luthiers Forum!

I remember being invited to join and I did but it died out pretty quickly and I can’t remember why.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

I still enjoy this Forum.

I just posted a question about the mini table saws and I got some "real world" intelligent answers and tips that helped me in making a decision on wether or not to buy one and some alternate ways of doing what I needed to do.

I am on a bunch of "groups" on facebook and at this point I get a kick out of the great comments people make more than anything...... not learning anything there

I guess what I am trying to say is people seem real on this forum as opposed to a bunch of trolls.

I agree with Brad. I try to participate even though I don't have too many questions anymore but the questions I do ask usually get me some well-reasoned thoughtful replies and I try to return the favor. Definitely a huge step up from FB or any of the other social media sites.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Same sentiments as Brad and Steve from me. I get a lot of value from the discussion forum format. Facebook and Instagram are places to either poke your head up and try to get attention for a nanosecond, or to scroll through and pay attention for a nanosecond to someone else.

I previously offered a "mixed bag" opinion of The Looth Group, and after spending over 2 hours watching another video there yesterday, I hereby double down on that. There is definitely some value in watching someone do something in painstaking detail on a recorded Zoom meeting, but there is also a price to be paid. If the way they hold their wrist or the tool or the workpiece is something that is hard to convey in writing, the video helps make it clear. But you also have to watch them fumble with the camera, or try to get the bottle open or the tape off the dispenser or whatever they are doing, because there is absolutely no editing of those videos going on over there. Gotta take the good with the bad, I guess, but it is such an investment of time that I have to limit my consumption.

I think this is a good thing to examine and I appreciate David bringing it up.

To play the “first thing that jumps to mind” game:

OLF - tradition
Loothgroup - innovation
Facebook - circus

It’s not true 100% across the board and I’m not talking at all about the UX differences between an antiquated PHPBB and a more modern Wordpress site or a site like Facebook.

I’m thinking abut the content.

If I had one shot to send a new builder somewhere to ask a question about, for example, the different ways to approach bending sides - I’m sending them here. What they will get is tried and true feedback from builders who have done it, not people who are just “like” and “heart” farming (Facebook).

I love the OLF and it’s been my primary source for learning and building relationships in luthiery (and beyond) over the last decade+.

I will tread lightly on this next comment - there is a tendency here to look at things as “settled law”. New ideas are often treated as “you’re wasting your time, we’ve already been through this”. It can stifle conversation.

Now, I totally understand, or think I understand why this happens - the OLF tends to try to supply guardrails to success. It’s one of things I love about it. The reason for the “we’ve already been through this” approach is because it’s true! The folks here are builders and are trying to save the heartache of something going wrong, people getting discouraged, stalling out, or worse quitting altogether.

It’s also the nature of a forum like this vs something like the Loothalong. Here it’s hard to be nuanced without writing paragraph after paragraph which involves a lot of effort by the members. The Loothgroup you can just join the Zoom, ask a question, get some feedback.

The platform the OLF is built on does stifle this for sure. There is no reason in 2025 people should be doing gymnastics to get images uploaded, get their password reset, have an SSL site.

Going to stop now before I get worked up and say something I’ll regret.

Love you guys! For real.


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Sent from iPhone using Tapatalk Pro which uploads images to the OLF very nicely…:)

That’s true, Ed. However, go back and look at the archives and you’ll see early images hosted by Tapatalk are gone. It works in the short term but the archives really need to be managed by Lance, not relying on third party.

Same with photobucket, Imgur, etc….


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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Ah…did not know that. Fortunately all my posts are based on short term…uh, what’s that word I’m looking for…

I just saw this post from Tom Ellis on facebook-If you don't know who he is -one of the foremost Mandolin builders of our time-absolutely amazing instruments. He also owns Precision Pearl that does Custom work for the who's who in this industry and is a pioneer in CNC pearl cutting and inlay-He's made my logos and has done other work for me for 30 years.
Anyway these obnoxious schmucks were making rude and disparaging comments in reply to his post on facebook-It is disgusting! For no reason I could see other than they were jealous.....Things like"they are machine made ,not handmade" because he showed a CNC doing some operations I don't see this happening here....Rant over!

Facebook groups are rife with ignorance, lack of experience, poor information, and the Dunning Kruger effect runs rampant. The blind leading the blind results in many people posting severe problems that could have been circumvented simply by starting with a book instead.

This has never been a problem with the OLF. I've always enjoyed it here, and while there are not as many posts as there once was, the archive/search is useful, and the quality of information is good. This format lends itself to a more informed discussion than Facebook comments.

I also find that there is some great information on The Looth Group.

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Instagram: @jfrenchluthier
Web: https://www.jfrenchguitars.com/

The OLF is what you make of it for each and everyone of us.

I've been here around 20 years now and I met my business partner Dave Collins on the OLF. We lived 5 miles apart and did not know each other until we both met here.

For me the OLf was key to making the jump to Luthier speed and in the early days we had a couple dozen pro, working in the trade luthiers who helped us all a great deal. Of course they all left because of happenings similar to what Brad G. described happened on a Facebook group. That has happened here and it has happened here in the last 6 months too...

So in an effort to say something positive which is why I am here by the way in the past even way back when the post count slowed way down I got busy and some of you will remember that. Most of my tutorials were written to stimulate conversation and nearly always at times when post counts were low.

I've personally made over 40,000 posts here and many of them were intentionally posted to stimulate conversation.

I also was the very first and only moderator ever on the OLF. It was like being the Maytag repair man with very little to do until the Padma posted about using sperm as a pore filler....

We had some competition from the MIMF and 2 - 3 other forum through the years and when I just checked them out for the first time in years the post count there if they are even still around is slower than it is here.

If you would like to read more and learn more here feel free to post more and ask questions. I come here about twice a day and I am only looking for one thing these days and that is someone to help when they ask a question. That's what makes me happy giving back what I received from folks 20 years ago like Howard Klepper, Rick Turner, Mario P., Kevin Gallagher, Colin Symonds, Dave White, Frank Ford, Dan E.. Hell we even had a visit for a couple months from Ervin Somogyi and he shared enough that many of were able to understand his approach in a more detailed way.

I'm not going to compare the OLF to say the Looth Group which is on in our shop I'm just out of sight of the camera and often making fart noises or playing with our three dogs we have now. I'm Uncle Hesh to our four legged friends

I will say that the Looth Group serves another cause for professional Luthiers that is not mentioned. For some of us who work alone it can be very boring with no one to speak with and the group can serve as people keeping each other company too. The OLF could not do this in real time.

As for if only the OLf had this or that if you don't understand by now that this is a vacation rental and the owner is out of the country (with no offense intended) much of the time perhaps it's time to learn that it is what it is here for better or worse and that never stopped the OLF from creating millions of dollars of wealth and thousands of guitars and helping people find meaningful employment for decades now. Lance did a really good thing and by my measure the OLF even with expired certificates and no moderation helped me out more so than any other source of information about Lutherie.

So please feel free to take a stab at posting more, writing tutorials, posting progress posts of your builds etc. There is lots to talk about in the trade and we may have some huge changes coming as a result of geopolitics too since much of what our suppliers sell comes from abroad.

And before I go Thank You Lance for the OLF. I'm going to be 69 in a few months and I'm happy as a clam. I work morning only now and do 2 - 3 guitars a day and that makes a lot of people happy in a single weeks time. I love my work, it's easy for me and I look forward to going to work and doing my work. A day without a guitar to fix is stressful for me now I feel unproductive.

None of this would have happened for me without the OLF and some of the very good folks who went out of their way to offer me a hand back in the day.

Thanks everyone

All my image folders have a subfolder called "raw" for files straight off my camera. I crop/resize the best ones and save outside the raw folder. That way I still have all the originals without cluttering the main folder, and I have the resized images on my hard drive for future use, unlike resizing within a forum editor.

I always upload images directly so their lifespan is tied to the forum itself rather than an external site, but what I don't like about it is that you can't see them unless you log in. It's not a problem for me personally, but I'd rather my posts be fully viewable by the widest audience possible. That Looth Group forum doesn't even allow viewing the text of posts without an account... I certainly won't be spending any of my time creating content for that.

As a relative newbie in every sense of the word (to the forum, and to guitar building in general), I'm very grateful for this forum. I've only been building a couple of years, on my 14th build now, but have learned an IMMENSE amount from the archives here, as well as from the current content (when it's posted). I check in daily, just to see what's going on in the world-o-lutherie. I don't post because I don't think I have anything to add, but I have benefitted massively from the generosity of everyone here, in real time and in the archives. So a heartfelt "thanks" to everyone who has made this place what it is.

Just checked my profile info and it says I joined the OLF 17 years ago this month. Hard to believe. I used to be a fairly active member (and builder) but things change over time. Personally, I picked a fight with a chisel (not fun) and my hand has never been the same. Then I became a grandfather (wonderful) and my life is better than ever. So, while my interest in and involvement with guitars has waned, I still pop in here fairly often and am actually chipping away at a trio of OMs. If I get those done I may even start another batch. We’ll see.

I’ve learned a tremendous amount from all of you and made a few friends as well. Thanks for all of it.

George

P.S. Throw some salt over your left shoulder, Hesh, and do not ever write that name three times in a row!

I'm similar, though I do respond if I think I have some experience which might be relevant.

However, this thread got me thinking, and I reckon the OLF is particularly useful for amateurs and beginning builders. The archives are great, but I've found the most useful to me have been ideas and points raised in discussions - things I'd never have thought of searching for, but which I could take and use in my own building. There must be many others who feel this way - I've been surprised by how many have responded to this thread.

So, what might increase engagement in the OLF is more new threads, which means that amateurs like me ought to post their experiences from time to time. Of course we will repeat stuff that's been written about here before, but we might still be helping another amateur or beginner who's never considered that point and wouldn't think to search for it.

In that spirit, I'm about to post some thoughts about hot hide glue and the amateur builder. Apologies if you;ve read it all before!

Well, I just learned about Looth Group, and will look into it. It IS refreshing to see some old friends here from the Luthier Community, and think Hesh made some excellent points. After the Luthier Community dissolved, I tried to sign up here, but took a few months to be allowed access. Same for getting access to Classifieds, but I DO like the folks here, like the format (yes, I drove cars with floor dimmers, and chokes), and laughed out loud about the mention of Padma's advice.

I haven't been here much lately, and as Hesh said, this place is what you put into it. That said, I will be a more active participant in this forum moving forward.

Bill

Seeing as a business supporting us found no buyer when its owner wanted to sell out (LMI), I'm curious about the size and demographics of our luthier community. Average age, numbers leaving, number entering, overall size of the group? We may be seeing the byproduct of a shrinking population of luthiers more than a fading participation in a forum.

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Peter Havriluk

Is this actually what happened? Do you have some direct knowledge of the details? I’m curious because I was very interested in buying some aspects of the business and was told there would be an open opportunity at some point but was never informed of it actually happening despite multiple follow ups. Probably a better DM discussion I guess.


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Brad, LMII stated very clearly that they could not find a buyer when they were clearing out a lot of stock prior to them shutting down. Sad but true.

Nice to see that my post has generated so much traffic and participation. I'll definitely need to do more Karen posts in the future. lol/ Nice to hear that the bulk of people are at least lurking. This is still by far my favorite forum and I have learned an exceptional amount of Loothing from here. Not to mention he friendships which is the most enjoyment of all.

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I mean…where else can you go to have a scintillating discussion about two sided tape?

The 'like' button is on strike, so I'm sending my 'like' now.

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Peter Havriluk

No comprende - I wouldn't ask a question anywhere else.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.