Official Luthiers Forum!

Tracks? There were tracks?

Anyhoo, I agree with Brad on the importance of rounding over the inside corner of the binding strip. I also offer these observations:

1. Once you bend it, wood can be a bit stubborn about bending further. By that I mean: if you significantly over-bend in those straight areas marked on the above photo or significantly under-bend in curved areas, it is possible that tape alone is not going to coerce the wood into its perfect position.

2. One response to this phenomenon is to be super picky about the bending of the wood, and try to get it perfect. Another response to this phenomenon is to use a more aggressive means to push the wood binding into its perfect position. I use silicone rubber bands, and they work great for this. But it is best to try to get the bend just right. If you use a Fox bender, for wood bindings, following up with a hot pipe is a good idea.

Wood bindings were problematic for me, plastic was always easy.
Alternate taping could not hurt, sounds good Brad.

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Measure Twice,

Karl Borum

I run a 1 meter cylindrical radius on some models for the back, and had a problem using wooden bindings to get a good fit due to the rise and fall of the sides.
I found this a help to take the tendency for the wooden bindings to twist out of alignment, matching the rise and fall.
Can't remember the original user on this forum, but thanks!
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=54593&p=729351&hilit=+bending+bindings#p729351

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

If your binding ledge goes all the way through your sides and into the lining you will find the body resonance tap tone all but disappears once the ledge is cut. It will come back after gluing the binding. I'd rather count on the natural resonance of wood to restore the "boom". If your binding is thinner than the side's thickness then probably not much difference.

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Stay with the happy people.
--Reynolds Large

Colin, with the pipe bender, do you place the top of the binding onto the top of the L-Bracket? Do you apply heat before glue or after?

Rise and fall of the sides might explain the cause of my problem. It also suggests making the binding thin and short and not so oversized as I tend to do. Thanks for information.

I also used fish glue on the problematic wood binding job....the long open time might have worked against me. My rational for fish glue was the "rubbed joint phenomenon" where the wood pulls tightly together. Rubbed jointing worked on sample glue up.... but then I couldn't "rub" the binding during the actual process.

Next time: Closer fit, Titebond I, short thin binding stock, alternating the tape tension point, and possibly bending iron.

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Measure Twice,

Karl Borum

I use celluloid, ABS or wood, depending on the guitar probably 50-50 mix of plastic to wood at this point.
Here are a few of my observations from 50 years of farting around with this stuff…

Wood binding if done correctly -meaning bent very close to the shape of the guitar with no tension and glued with either yellow glue or hot hide glue definitely will last longer than anything in my opinion.

As we all know by now, celluloid binding breaks down after vary amounts of time …my feeling is that has to do with the different formulations because otherwise why would some last 50 years and some last 100 years…
And I know for a fact, it can last for 100 years because I have an old Stella parlor Guitar from the 1930s that has white celluloid binding on the top and it’s in perfect condition. No deterioration at all….
I’ve developed a theory that lacquering the binding hastens that deterioration I say this for a couple of reasons, I’m pretty sure the guitar I have there’s no varnish on the binding and also had some celluloid bound bodies that were 50 to 60 years old from the Harptone company that weren’t finished and the celluloid buying was perfect And if you look at those same guitars that were finished, the celluloid binding is all deteriorated.

Anyway, I use the Ivoroid binding on most of my ladder braced Guitars. I have had no issues with any of that stuff peeling off however, some guitars that I had from 20 years ago that I used the ABS binding on did have problems I was using the glue From LMI in the blue tube that wasn’t any good

I know a lot of people use the Duco acetone base glue to glue the ABS, but I’ve never tried that at this point. I’m using Stewart McDonald’s white glue binding cement, which is stupid expensive but I think it’s the best thing out there right now for ABS.

Plastic must be beneficial if staining the back and sides?

Appreciate the thanks Colin. I think it is probably the only original idea I've had for the build process.

I have to say my binding improved enormously once I started bending along with the sides in the bender.

Cheers Dave