Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Sun Nov 24, 2024 10:02 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:43 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 6256
Location: Virginia
At this point in my hobbyist 'career' I've done more re-tops then I care too and as I am faced with another one I got to thinking. Hesh is big on serviceability and so am I but is re-topping a cause for serviceability? If you fit the brace ends into the linings well it seems to me that a drop of glue there is not really necessary. I use the Grevin method of routing off the top leaving the bindings in place and then fitting in a new top. Routing it off flush to the linings makes for easy top removal but then those brace ends are stuck in place and have to be knocked out. If they were not glued in then the top would lift right out.

I should mention that I reuse these tops on smaller guitars. The reasons why I have retopped in the past was due to customer concerns of cosmetic flaws, runout and so on and also when I damaged the edge when doing the binding.

Anyway, just thinking out loud...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:46 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:15 pm
Posts: 7379
First name: Ed
Last Name: Bond
City: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
I put a dab a glue in the pocket to deny the brace the opportunity to peel from the end…


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2022 11:23 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:52 am
Posts: 287
Location: Canada
First name: Cal
Last Name: Maier
City: Crossfield
State: AB
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
With tops only the upper bout brace ends are glued and tucked into the linings, eg. upper x-brace and upper transverse brace. The lower bout brace ends are not tucked into the linings
With backs all ladder brace ends are glued and tucked.

_________________
Remember, there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2022 11:33 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:15 pm
Posts: 7379
First name: Ed
Last Name: Bond
City: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
That’s a good point right there!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2022 12:35 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 6256
Location: Virginia
Yeah that's the way I do most. I have one model that has tucked in X-Brace in the lower bout but the rest are feathered to zero with the linings running over the paper thin tail. But I am just wondering if it's necessary to glue in the tucked in parts. I guess it's a good idea to do that.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2022 1:28 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:52 am
Posts: 4524
First name: Big
Last Name: Jim
State: Deep in the heart of Bluegrass
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I have tried both ways . Honestly I no longer tuck them in , simply because its easier and i havent seen the value in doing so.... but thats just me

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:17 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:21 am
Posts: 4903
Location: Central PA
First name: john
Last Name: hall
City: Hegins
State: pa
Zip/Postal Code: 17938
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
Martin glues in the 2 X braces and the transverse I do the same and yes glue them any braces not glue into the kerfing should be faded to the top a lip is a stress riser and will pop the ends

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it



These users thanked the author bluescreek for the post: jfmckenna (Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:38 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:19 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 5968
A blast from the past and another world heard from:
https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/for ... p?t=523671



These users thanked the author Clay S. for the post (total 2): Pmaj7 (Fri Sep 16, 2022 7:06 pm) • jfmckenna (Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:38 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:45 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:03 pm
Posts: 569
First name: Toonces
Last Name: the Cat
City: New Smyrna Beach
State: FL
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Make sure that your upper transverse brace and the upper arms of your x-brace go into the linings. Failure to do so is just asking for trouble down the line. The other braces are optional.



These users thanked the author Toonces for the post: jfmckenna (Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:38 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2022 3:28 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:36 am
Posts: 7376
Location: Southeast US
City: Lenoir City
State: TN
Zip/Postal Code: 37772
Country: US
Focus: Repair
If they tuck into the lining they get glued.

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"



These users thanked the author SteveSmith for the post: jfmckenna (Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:39 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:53 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:50 pm
Posts: 3927
Location: United States
What Steve Smith said.

Any brace that can't be thinned down to practically nothing at the end should be tucked in. If it does thin down enough to avoid the stress riser it needs to taper over a fair distance.

Gibson used to use a sander to take the braces down to nothing at the very end. They still had some small height where they hit the liners, though, and rather than notch the liners they seem to have counted on the brace crushing the liner at that spot. The problem was that they used spruce for both the liners and braces, and given the variability of the wood often enough the liners crushed the braces, rather than the other way around. The braces would start to peel loose at the edge of the liners, particularly the UTB. People would come by with them showing rising action and other signs of stress, and when I'd look inside the UTB was just gone. When asked about it they'd say: "Oh yeah; I wondered what that stick was that was rattling around inside. I tossed it out..".



These users thanked the author Alan Carruth for the post: jfmckenna (Thu Sep 15, 2022 11:26 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2022 10:36 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:37 am
Posts: 4805
Toonces wrote:
Make sure that your upper transverse brace and the upper arms of your x-brace go into the linings. Failure to do so is just asking for trouble down the line. The other braces are optional.


+1


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CarlD, meddlingfool, Philip Perdue, sdsollod and 32 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com