Official Luthiers Forum!

Hello everyone!

I'm new to woodworking but have a background in auto body. I've been dabbling in guitar repair/finishing on a '93 MIM Squire I bought new as a kid. My first real "working man" purchase! haha. Came out pretty darn good if I do say so myself.

Came across a heck of a deal on a '93 LP Studio. Looks like someone did a pretty poor job trying to relic it, or had a chronic scratching problem? I'm exploring the options of either repairing the damage or stripping and refinishing the whole thing. I'd prefer to repair because there is some pretty cool natural checking that I'd like to retain. The question I have is any suggestions on how to match the original color? Wine Red is what I believe Gibson referred to it as back then? Stripping and refinishing is obviously the easy solution because I can pick any color I want then. But I really like this wine red, and maybe swap out with cream plastics?

For repair, my plan was to either stain the bare wood then fill with lacquer and level sand, wet sand, and polish. Or go the tinted lacquer route. The back of the neck looks pitted for lack of a better term so I was going to use a dark grain fill first and then procced with the lacquer work.

Tips? Thoughts? Suggestions? How would you go about it?

Also kicking around the idea of adding a binding to the body, but I haven't see any good way of doing it without removing the neck.

Appreciate the input, and thanks,
Mike

Leave it as it is or you risk further devaluation of the instrument and it's a nightmare matching an aged or relic finish. Scratches and gouges can't be filled and not look like someone filled them. The alternative is sanding the surrounding wood and then are you really modifying the instrument.

There are only about two people who I know of who specialize in doing what you are looking to do and they both have a lifetime of experience doing exactly this AND at least in one case they specialize in Fender only and historic Fender colors. They charge thousands and thousands to do this too by the way.

Any guitar that has been refinished loses a goodly chunk of it's value.

Now you may not care and I respect that too you may want this to be your ax and your player. Then do whatever you want but don't expect expert advice on finish matching on a forum like this one. You will get advice but you won't get it from people who make their livings matching finish on relic instruments, they are not here. I've matched and my business partner have matched or tied to match finish on hundreds of instruments and it's very tough and I would not even begin to want to share what I have learned because what you are attempting to do, presumably very well is very difficult and very specialized.

If on the other hand you just want to improve functionality, after all it is a tool for a musician and not a wall hanging.... there are a plethora of functional fixes but they will show and look like someone did the repairs.

Mike sorry to be so negative but your question is a huge can of worms and you are also asking people who do not specialize in this kind of work. As one Michigander to another welcome to the forum and I co-own Ann Arbor Guitars you should check out our web site if you want we are an hour from you. BTW we would not touch this so please don't ask we only do work that we can guarantee superb results. We've also had some pretty famous Lesters in our shop some I can publicly mention some I don't have authorization to do so. We had both of Robbin Fords and even better Robben for an afternoon too.

Welcome aboard man!

Welcome, Mike.... Forgive my impertinence, but in my experience - body men make horrible guitar finishers.

How were you planning on stripping the old finish?
Hint: Sanding is the wrong answer - it's already sanded.
Chemical stripping would be correct.

Why would you stain the wood when it's already stained?
You'd have to stain the raw places, of course - and trust me, it's not easy to match that stuff.
Having Gibson approved supplies from Gibson does help.

You haven't post pix of your Fender, that would help us gauge your skills. I should tell you that doing a superior job of touching up finishes will impress this bunch more than a complete refin. Also, like Hesh pointed out - it's only original once. Once you redo it - value goes down.

Please consider NOT refinishing it. It's truly a job left for experienced craftsman. We know you gotta learn sometime, but baby steps - okay?

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Really? Ouch.

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jw ( o)===:::

So, is 1993 Les Paul studio valuable? I don't really know but I don't think of the 90's as Gibson's golden years.

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

Mike, I'm a former auto body tech myself. I like to say I served a 30 year sentence in collision repair and was released for BAD behavior. LOL

Anyway, what you want to do is certainly do-able. I've done it many times myself. Many of the Gibsons that I did were quite old and I made the owners aware that completely refinishing guitars (especially older and collectible guitars) can have a negative impact on resale value BUT not everyone gives a hoot about that and they just want a beautiful looking instrument again. If you want to discuss some of the challenges that you will face, I will gladly give you some direction. I even have the wine red transparent color (think candy) left over from doing a mid sixties SG. I'll try and dig up some pics of that. You can email if you like, jwguitarw@gmail.com

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jw ( o)===:::

Mike, I will add my welcome and a couple of comments to what Hesh and Chris have said. Read Hesh's comments carefully, he is not being negative but rather realistic. Refinishing a guitar is infinitely more difficult than starting from bare wood and trying to do a partial refin is even harder. My humble advice is to try to drop fill the really bad areas so they won't feel too bad as you play and leave everything else.

Definitely do not try to bind it. You are right, binding channels are cut before the neck is glue in. Lesters are particularly difficult because of the arching of the top - you need to float the router so it only indexes on the very edge of the top. The area inside the horn is particularly tricky, the binding goes up and back down in that area. Bottom line, don't consider it.

My humble suggestion is to make a good player out of that guitar - do the frets and set it carefully. I don't know that 93 was a particularly desirable year but it might be a birth year guitar for someone. I don't have any problem doing a little filling on the damaged areas but please don't try to refinish the whole guitar. Buy or build a nice wood body to practice on, get lots of scrap for experimenting.

I have to add that I built a guitar for a friend who is probably one of the best custom motorcycle painters in the world. He wanted to do the lacquer finish himself and frankly he did a beautiful job. But it also told me it was unlike anything he had done before. Practice on scrap.

It’s worth mentioning that while tinkering with guitar projects is super fun, not every guitar is a great candidate. Guitars where some deft fretwork will turn them from dogs into great players are super rewarding projects. You put in a little effort and you end up with a great guitar.

Projects like this, you put in a vast amount of time, effort and mental energy and your reward is zero improvement in playability or tone, with maybe a cosmetic improvement. Not the way I like to spend my free time

I’m assuming that what you want is fun shop time, rather than self-flagellation for your past sins.

(Seriously though, the neck finish is the only thing I’d consider repairing, just because it would feel uncomfortable in the hand. I’d repair it clear and live with the relic vibe rather than try and probably fail to get a perfect color-match.)

Thanks everyone for the input. I came into this well knowing that the internet will always give the full spectrum of opinions. That's also why I came here first before I started doing anything. I take none of them personally and do appreciate all the different views!

The total refinish is my last resort. I do love some of the character that the LP has, but I also agree with Jim, a 90's Studio is not a particularly "valuable" guitar. So trying my hand at repairing and potentially losing some value is not much of a concern. I'm not looking to flip it, just always wanted to add a LP to my humble collection. So playability is a must, with that, the neck will definitely get some attention. The buckle rash on the back I could live with, but being that it is similar to the damage by the pickup (which is pretty unsightly) I would probably tackle that while I'm at it. I like the idea of finishing some scraps and practicing on that first. I will definitely do that.

The Fender got urethane finish with 2K poly clear. It's still curing, but should be ready for wet sanding in about a week. I can post some pics when its done if anyone is interested. That was a total strip down, wood repair and grain fill, then the primer/color/clear. My punk rock youth was quite hard on that guitar. Again, it's a Squire so value was the lowest priority. I just felt it earned a makeover lol.

We'd love to see your work!

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Yeah not you Joe you are the best finisher I have ever known!!! Hope you are doing great too my friend.

No not now but we all keep our original parts all together and maintain instruments with the possibility of greater value in the future and guitars have done very well this way.

A Teisco that sold for $19.95 at Murphy's five and dime when I was a kid sold at Elderly recently for $800. It was still a piece of junk but it gained value The 1956 Les Paul Elderly currently has for $40K sold when I was a kid for $300.....

So you never know and we maintain originality to protect value going forward. Of course anyone can do what ever they want but a lot of people don't know that if you refinish you can kiss a sizable percentage of resale value good bye.

But when I give advice and what someone wants to do may harm their investment I kind of have a duty to consider that and say something.

Hope you are doing great Jim!