Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Thu Nov 28, 2024 11:52 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:45 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 2:31 pm
Posts: 259
Location: Conway, Arkansas
I am trying to duplicate John Greven's technique of using heat lamps to shorten the cure time of Enduro-Var.
The problem is I don't know any of the details.
From talking with the System 3 folks about their Silvertip, I know that every 18°F rise in temperature decreases the gel time in half. System 3 tests Silvertip at 77°F and 50% humidity.
Extrapolating from this, I am assuming (and I know this is a mistake) that the set time would be cut in half as well at 95°F and 50% humidity.
Now to extrapolate even further, I'm assuming that Enduro-Var might be pretty close to this. In other words, if I hung an instrument in a closet with heat lamps on both sides and maintained a temperature of 95°F the Enduro-Var curing time stated on the can would be cut in half.
What are your thoughts on this?
Have any of you tried using heat lamps to speed up curing times?
What is your setup?

Thanks

_________________
Formerly know as Mandodiddle.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:47 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:47 pm
Posts: 2523
First name: Jay
Last Name: De Rocher
City: Bothell
State: Washington
For clarification, are you wanting to reduce the cure time after all the Endurovar coats are on the instrument or reduce the time between coats?

_________________
Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:02 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:47 pm
Posts: 2523
First name: Jay
Last Name: De Rocher
City: Bothell
State: Washington
John Greven described his method in American Lutherie issue #118. He puts the guitar under a heat lamp for 30 minutes between coats. Six coats per day. The article doesn't have details about his heat lamp setup, but it says "curing thirty minutes between coats under a heat lamp". He says "a heat lamp" twice in his description of his process so it doesn't sound like a complicated setup.

_________________
Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:26 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 2:31 pm
Posts: 259
Location: Conway, Arkansas
Jay, I want to reduce the time between coats.

_________________
Formerly know as Mandodiddle.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:08 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:34 pm
Posts: 2047
First name: Stuart
Last Name: Gort
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Not just heat...but airflow. Not too much...but guarantee that the air is moving above the curing surface.

Also light....could be UV is all you need. The more intense whatever light band proves to be effective...the more you may be able to crank up the light intensity in certain bands without producing so much heat. It's probably not HEAT that cures the glue but rather a specific frequency of that heat lamp. Isolating that frequency and cranking it up probably results in even faster curing.

Simple test...three panels....regular heat lamp...UV light (try to match the wattages)...and your oven. Same wood and film thickness. Have a look every ten minutes to see how they cure. Use about 175F in the oven.

_________________
I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:01 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:47 pm
Posts: 2523
First name: Jay
Last Name: De Rocher
City: Bothell
State: Washington
Stuart Gort wrote:
It's probably not HEAT that cures the glue


Is "glue" a typo?

Since Endurovar is a water-based urethane finish, I'm thinking that the heat lamp speeds up the curing by evaporating the water faster.

_________________
Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:06 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:44 am
Posts: 5498
First name: colin
Last Name: north
Country: Scotland.
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Curing is technically a misnomer then, GF quotes 1 week to dry EV, plus another 2 weeks to cure, which is by crosslinking.
And 1 coat can be sanded after a hour or less.

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:43 am 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:24 am
Posts: 2
John uses a 250 watt white bulb to speed drying between coats.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:53 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:50 pm
Posts: 3929
Location: United States
I don't know the chemistry of Enduro-Var, but the oil-resin varnishes I use cure faster under UV. These cure by an oxidation reaction after the 'vehicle' (thinner or turps) evaporates. UV reacts with VOCs to produce ozone and smog, and ozone is much more reactive than regular oxygen. This does reduce the time between coats, and can also help when non-drying oils in the wood inhibit the cure. Again, this is the stuff I've worked with (Behlen's old 'Rockhard' varnish, and now Murdoch's Ure-alkyd 500); I can't say whether it will work with Enduro-var.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 64 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com