Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Fri Nov 22, 2024 3:58 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:41 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:09 pm
Posts: 870
Location: Cowichan Valley, BC, Canada
First name: Conor
Last Name: Searl
City: Duncan
State: British Columbia
Zip/Postal Code: V9L 2E5
Country: Canada
Status: Semi-pro
A customer brought me his guitar that he had previously repaired. The back/side have separated again very close to where his original repair was. I've started cleaning some of the old glue out of the crack, but in looking at it I'm wondering how thorough I need to be. He doesn't care so much about aesthetics, but wants it to be structurally sound. The new break is not necessarily the same as the original, a lot of kerfing is broken, and it looks like there's quite a bit of wood to wood contact, but the nature of this break, and how long it seems to have been left unaddressed (there are quite a few dust bunnines lodged in there) makes it next to impossible to close up cleanly.

And a follow up question, the initial impact area is super ragged looking, and the plys have begun de-laminating. Will dousing this in CA and clamping prevent the damage from spreading, and tidy up the ragged ends so they don't continually catch on things?


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:00 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:04 am
Posts: 5821
First name: Chris
Last Name: Pile
City: Wichita
State: Kansas
Country: Good old US of A
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
What kind of glue did he use?

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:56 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:54 am
Posts: 854
State: Texas
Country: United States
Focus: Repair
My thought would be to replace the binding. Looks like it's shredded already so it wouldn't hurt anything to have some fresh clean wood there.

If the kerfing is broken then having the binding off will help with the cleanup and repair in general. Replacing binding is a good bit of work however, but if he's not worried about cosmetics at all then it might be the ticket.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:03 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:09 pm
Posts: 870
Location: Cowichan Valley, BC, Canada
First name: Conor
Last Name: Searl
City: Duncan
State: British Columbia
Zip/Postal Code: V9L 2E5
Country: Canada
Status: Semi-pro
Chris Pile wrote:
What kind of glue did he use?


Not sure, it's kind of white and milky. When I pull some of it off it's like strong but supple plastic, a little stretchy feeling..


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:08 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:09 pm
Posts: 870
Location: Cowichan Valley, BC, Canada
First name: Conor
Last Name: Searl
City: Duncan
State: British Columbia
Zip/Postal Code: V9L 2E5
Country: Canada
Status: Semi-pro
DanKirkland wrote:
My thought would be to replace the binding. Looks like it's shredded already so it wouldn't hurt anything to have some fresh clean wood there.

If the kerfing is broken then having the binding off will help with the cleanup and repair in general. Replacing binding is a good bit of work however, but if he's not worried about cosmetics at all then it might be the ticket.


What's the best way to remove binding? I'm assuming the whole piece would have to come off? The bottom of the neck heel is flush with the back, so to get the whole piece off the neck would have to come off. Its an old Samick (S. Yairi) so taking the neck off won't be a simple operation. Not to mention the poly finish...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:20 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:04 am
Posts: 5821
First name: Chris
Last Name: Pile
City: Wichita
State: Kansas
Country: Good old US of A
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
Quote:
Not sure, it's kind of white and milky. When I pull some of it off it's like strong but supple plastic, a little stretchy feeling..


So it didn't cure. Weird.

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:54 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 6256
Location: Virginia
I cannot really tell by the pics but if you see enough wood to wood contact then just go ahead and glue it up with Titebond or HHG. The problem with CA is that it might cause staining. CA really likes to run down the end grain lines. But if you are careful you might be able to seal the end grain with shellac and then douse it with the thin CA and clamp it up to tighten up the laminate.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:00 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:54 am
Posts: 854
State: Texas
Country: United States
Focus: Repair
Conor_Searl wrote:
What's the best way to remove binding? I'm assuming the whole piece would have to come off? The bottom of the neck heel is flush with the back, so to get the whole piece off the neck would have to come off. Its an old Samick (S. Yairi) so taking the neck off won't be a simple operation. Not to mention the poly finish...


In this case maybe router off the old binding and then graft in a replacement piece in just the broken area. Maybe no need to replace it all the way around. Again if he doesn't care about cosmetics if the replacement binding isn't an exact match it wouldn't be a big deal. I'd rather look at a mismatched piece of binding than a shredded one.



These users thanked the author DanKirkland for the post: Conor_Searl (Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:19 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:16 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:09 pm
Posts: 870
Location: Cowichan Valley, BC, Canada
First name: Conor
Last Name: Searl
City: Duncan
State: British Columbia
Zip/Postal Code: V9L 2E5
Country: Canada
Status: Semi-pro
Well, I decided the easiest thing would be to rout that old binding off and then glue the separation and finally replace the binding. I won't be applying at any museums in the near future (the lack of close up pictures is on purpose ;) ,) but I think I did a good job keeping this campfire guitar going!


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.



These users thanked the author Conor_Searl for the post: DanKirkland (Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:02 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:19 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:04 am
Posts: 5821
First name: Chris
Last Name: Pile
City: Wichita
State: Kansas
Country: Good old US of A
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
I like it.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:15 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:49 pm
Posts: 1039
First name: peter
Last Name: havriluk
City: granby
State: ct
Zip/Postal Code: 06035
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Too late now for this one, but routing a purfling channel to cut back past the raggedy edge might be possible for the next person with this problem. Look up 'specification creep' and 'extra work' as that's what I offered here. But it would eliminate a bunch of the ragged edge.

A very nice rescue indeed. Thank you for sharing this with us.

_________________
Peter Havriluk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:16 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:09 pm
Posts: 870
Location: Cowichan Valley, BC, Canada
First name: Conor
Last Name: Searl
City: Duncan
State: British Columbia
Zip/Postal Code: V9L 2E5
Country: Canada
Status: Semi-pro
phavriluk wrote:
Too late now for this one, but routing a purfling channel to cut back past the raggedy edge might be possible for the next person with this problem. Look up 'specification creep' and 'extra work' as that's what I offered here. But it would eliminate a bunch of the ragged edge.

A very nice rescue indeed. Thank you for sharing this with us.


Great idea Peter! I'll keep that in mind. Although with this one ragged edges are part of the aesthetic I think... ;)


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:03 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:54 am
Posts: 854
State: Texas
Country: United States
Focus: Repair
I think you did great Conor. Nice work!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com