Official Luthiers Forum!

Anybody got one? They look pretty slick...

I have bunches of them. I use them for CNC, but I also use them for holding down fingerboards and peghead overlays for inlaying/engraving, for holding things down to the workbench for planing/scraping/etc., holding bodies for sanding and scraping. For danged near everything actually. I have some for general purposes and others for very specific jobs. I really don't know how I got along before I started doing vacuum....

Dave

Yeah I think for flat sanding the sides and to replace the binding carriage would be fantastic...

Yes, I use one for flattening the sides, sanding the top and back, planing soundboard to thickness, end graph, neck fitting...

Pat

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Pat

Yes, it’s very handy!

Mine is the older unit from Lmii. I use it while fairing the sides, scraping bindings, installing the end graft, drilling for the pickup plug, installing and cutting a side sound port, etc. Many woods are too porous to hold vacuum via the back so I usually hold the work from the top/spruce side. It’s never dented or damaged the top in anyway. I would take care when clamping a finished surface. I tape a folded paper towel to the center of the holder and this usually eliminates the need for a touch on the buffer.

On the wish list then...

Looks like you're using the Joe Woodworker/Veneer Supplies vacuum pump too. I've used one of those for a long time--I'm about to replace the venturi with a dedicated pump since I didn't have room for my big compressor when I moved my shop...

Dave

I’d like more info! I’ve been wanting one of these a long time.
What pump do y’all use? Anything from harbor freight work?
I watched the lmii video on the thing, but Robbie gave a u it if measurement I can’t find on any pump specs... forgot what he used ...
b


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I power mine off of a surplus Gast pump I got off of Ebay. I also built one of the Veneer Supplies venturi pumps, but I use it for vacuum bagging. It has tanks that hold vacuum so that it sucks a vacuum bag very quickly. Not really necessary for hold downs. On the clamp itself, I didn't like the panavise base that came with it, so I mounted it on a carving vise. Much better.

If you have a big enough compressor, one of the Harbor Freight refrigeration vacuum pumps would probably work.

Dave

I bought the current LMI "set" of stuff recently. Vice, Pump, release valve kit. It wasn't cheap, but I was hoping to solve a number of problems, so it seemed worth it. I also invested in some new sanding and buffing equipment that would benefit greatly from this style of vice. Now that I've used it a few weeks, I'd have to say it's "good" but not quite all that I was hoping for.

Most of my bodies are EIR, which is quite porous (as most of you well know). I was expecting to use the vice to hold the body for all surface prep. I use a festool 6" orbital on my bodies and do a ton of scraping on the sides to true them up. First thing I discovered (much to my disappointment) was that the EIR was too porous to be held by the vacuum. So, that meant I couldn't work on the top using the vice to grab onto my backs. Of course, once I got to the point where the pours were filled, it worked fine, but most of the "hard work" comes in surfacing the raw wood before any products are applied. -1 for my vice plans.

The next thing I tried, which turned out to be a huge mistake, was to use the vice to hold a body while routing an end graph. Seemed to be holding solid, but in the middle of the cut (very light cut of about 1/16", the body dropped onto the floor and dented the edge of the body... Unfortunately I had routed my binding slots already, so I had to deal with a dented edge. -1 for the vice. +1 for wood floors. (btw, the vice was clamped to the spruce top... not the EIR back.)

As for the noise, it's really not bad at all. I'm fussy about anything making noise, but I hung the pump under my bench on ropes and with the provided muffler it's just not an issue. Keep in mind I use ear plugs for every single machine in my shop (I'm that paranoid) but the vacuum pump doesn't even phase me.

Now for holding strength of the "Panavice". This thing seemed clever, and it is. Unfortunately, mine wouldn't actually "lock" in the last bit of tightening. Eventually I put some high-end chassis oil on the screw that tightens the thing and that finally got it to get tight enough that it wouldn't swivel around if I tightened it hard enough. Unfortunately, when using a scraper (which I use a LOT) on the sides, the vice still rotates under heaver strokes. I have to really crank down on the little knob (not enough leverage on that thing) and then it holds enough for me to do my side surfacing if I'm strategic about where I'm putting pressure. Again, remember you can't clamp onto the back with EIR back wood so I had to leave the clamp attached to the lower bought of the top which meant any work on the upper bought was just putting too much leverage on the Panavice to hold, and it kept rotating on me. -1 for the vice.

Ok, so why am I still using the darned thing? Well, once I determined the limitations and used it for what it was good for, it's quite convenient. Sanding and buffing operations are dramatically better than a troji style vice, or wrestling the body on your bench. The quick release valve is a must for me, as I rotate the piece a decent bit during certain operations, and trying to loosen and tighten the panavice with that little knob just isn't realistic for quick rotations. In the end, I use it for all sanding (except the top when the body is raw) and I have learned to be able to scrape my sides without too much vice movement. It is quite nice for applying wipe on finishes, like sanding sealer and pour filler. Once once the finish is on, it is ideal for buffing if you are using a hand-held buffer, which I recently converted to thanks to Barry's many comments and advice. (Festool Rototex 90, which works very nicely for buffing btw)

All that said, I still use my troji for a few key operations, and I still sand my raw tops on a felt packing blanket due to the EIR backs not holding to the vice.

What would I do differently if I did it all over? Well, probably not a whole lot. Messing with alternative vacuum pumps to save a few bucks and trying to figure out all the details just isn't my Kida thing. Eventually I do want to have a pump that can also drive a Grizzly Fretboard Radius machine, but I'll deal with that (unfortunately) when the time comes. I don't like messing with machines. I wish the documentation included with the product was better, but eventually I figured it all out.

If I loved machine fiddling and knew more about this whole world of vacuum stuff I would probably have bought a bigger vacuum, run a copper line outside my shop to the pump and found an alternative to the Panavice that held like... well... a vice. But, this product is definitely designed for people like me, who want a vacuum vice and don't want to ride the learning curve to cobble together their own solution.

Happy guitar making!

That was my experience with the Panavise too. I built a block out multiple layers of baltic birch plywood, drilled a hole for the vacuum jig, cut a slot to allow a tightening bolt and then screwed the whole thing to a carving jig. Works extremely well--10 times more solid than the Panavise.

I've not had any problems with EIR or any other wood for that matter with mine--With the guitar body in place, I'm usually pulling somewhere between 20 and 25 inches of vacuum. My pump is a fairly high vacuum model Gast pump. That might make some of the difference. I've routed end grafts on it--but out of general paranoia that the thing might let go, I put something soft under the body to catch it in case it did let go. Hasn't happened yet, but you never know.

Dave

Thanks for the detailed responses!

Ed

Have a look at this, I've always been meaning to make one.. He does have plans I believe..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr0cNaU ... ueWoodshop

Kerry

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Wow, vacuum on the bottom also, clever!

Pat

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Pat