Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Mon Nov 25, 2024 5:47 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:55 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 6256
Location: Virginia
As seen here? I imagine they did this to strengthen the hole since mahogany might be a bit too soft or to easily burnished.

Do you think that would be necessary in a beech wood headstock (as in the old Vienna guitar in my other thread)?

Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:08 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 5968
For a guitar I used friction pegs on I was advised to use boxwood and hide the bushings under the face veneer ( I didn't drill all the way through the back of the peghead. I heard ebony (pegs) are abrasive and wear violin peg holes more quickly than box wood pegs so box bushings is what I used. Someone might have bushed the Martin with Rosewood?

https://www.swstrings.com/product/lutherie/viola/R333V


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:22 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 6256
Location: Virginia
Yeah it does look like rosewood doesn't it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:43 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:42 am
Posts: 1577
Location: United States
If any of your new pegs intercept old plugs, I think that you cannot rely on the integrity of the old plugs. I think if your new pegs hit those old spots, then you will need a "bushing". Plenty of flamenco guitars have pegs directly into mahogany, which I am guessing is not particularly resilient.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:19 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:01 pm
Posts: 1887
Location: UK
I'm a big fan of spiral paper bushings. In fact I'd put them in a brand new build. Their advantage is that there's no end grain/side grain, the hole that the peg sits in is homogeneous all the way around. When it finally wears out? well it's easily replaced, in fact you shouldn't need to ream any wood at all.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:26 pm 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:06 pm
Posts: 63
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I have an old Martin with pegs. The holes have rosewood around them.



These users thanked the author FlyingFred for the post: TimAllen (Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:19 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:44 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 5968
Michael.N. wrote:
I'm a big fan of spiral paper bushings. In fact I'd put them in a brand new build. Their advantage is that there's no end grain/side grain, the hole that the peg sits in is homogeneous all the way around. When it finally wears out? well it's easily replaced, in fact you shouldn't need to ream any wood at all.


I was told to put the bushings in so the end grain was front and back of the peghead. That meant the peg was bearing on long grain all the way around.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:46 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 6256
Location: Virginia
wbergman wrote:
If any of your new pegs intercept old plugs, I think that you cannot rely on the integrity of the old plugs. I think if your new pegs hit those old spots, then you will need a "bushing". Plenty of flamenco guitars have pegs directly into mahogany, which I am guessing is not particularly resilient.


I do plan on making new holes away from the old dowels. The beech wood probably is strong enough. My client is a vintage collector and he like the idea of a 'bushing' but I think I would rather not drill yet another hole in this headstock though done right it's probably just fine.

Michael.N. wrote:
I'm a big fan of spiral paper bushings. In fact I'd put them in a brand new build. Their advantage is that there's no end grain/side grain, the hole that the peg sits in is homogeneous all the way around. When it finally wears out? well it's easily replaced, in fact you shouldn't need to ream any wood at all.


That's very interesting, I had to look that up. Very clever idea indeed.

FlyingFred wrote:
I have an old Martin with pegs. The holes have rosewood around them.

Cool. Yeah the one's pictured above do indeed look like rosewood.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:19 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:42 am
Posts: 1577
Location: United States
spiral paper bushings

OK, I know this was a recent topic, but I cannot find it. Please provide me the link.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:37 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 5968
There are a number of discussions on the Maestronet forum, here is one of them (read past the gibberish):
https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php? ... l-bushing/

And another and better:
https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php? ... -question/



These users thanked the author Clay S. for the post: wbergman (Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:09 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:57 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 6256
Location: Virginia
Here's a pretty good pictorial on these bushings too:

https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php? ... -bushings/



These users thanked the author jfmckenna for the post: wbergman (Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:08 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:08 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:17 am
Posts: 1286
First name: John
Last Name: Arnold
City: Newport
State: TN
Zip/Postal Code: 37821
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
I don't think you need any bushings in beech. It's pretty hard wood. Those Martin necks are Spanish cedar, which is relatively soft.

_________________
John


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:56 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 6256
Location: Virginia
John Arnold wrote:
I don't think you need any bushings in beech. It's pretty hard wood. Those Martin necks are Spanish cedar, which is relatively soft.

Thanks John. Quick question, was it common for those old Martins to install a wood bushing(if so what kind of wood is it?) or do you think the above photo's are repair work?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:46 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:17 am
Posts: 1286
First name: John
Last Name: Arnold
City: Newport
State: TN
Zip/Postal Code: 37821
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
Martin installed wood bushings that are probably rosewood.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

_________________
John


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:06 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 6256
Location: Virginia
John Arnold wrote:
Martin installed wood bushings that are probably rosewood.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


Thanks John.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: jfrench, kyle.medeiros and 28 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com