Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Fri Nov 29, 2024 7:09 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:41 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 2:31 pm
Posts: 259
Location: Conway, Arkansas
I’m in the middle of an “Americana” tenor ukulele build for my son-in law. Using only woods from North America. The ukulele has a walnut body and neck and maple binding, bridge and fretboard.
I need some help with the headplate wood. Do any of you have any ideas/suggestions for a darker wood (not walnut) that is preferably burl that I could use for the headplate? I am really running into a brick wall here. It doesn’t have to be as dark as the walnut, but it needs to be dark enough that the gold mother-of-pearl inlay doesn’t look sloppy (It is a thin script). I’m definitely not trying it with maple.
Anyway, any ideas sure would be appreciated.
Thanks

_________________
Formerly know as Mandodiddle.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:46 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:47 pm
Posts: 2523
First name: Jay
Last Name: De Rocher
City: Bothell
State: Washington
One North American wood I can think of that can be quite dark is myrtle. Most myrtle is on the light side, but some pieces can be very dark. If you contact sources that emphasize myrtle they might be able to help you find a head plate piece that's dark.

Oregon Wild Wood: https://tonewood.com/guitar-tonewood.html
Pacific Coast Woods: http://www.pacificcoastwoods.net/

Is it practical to stain a lighter wood dark and then inlay? Or maybe inlay the wood first and then stain it dark?

_________________
Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:32 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:54 am
Posts: 854
State: Texas
Country: United States
Focus: Repair
Texas Ebony is pretty dark. Its tough to find large pieces but maybe you could do a multi piece headplate.

Another wood that's darkish is Persimmon. However it is very hard and is alot like African ebony

If you want a practical route. Holly wood stains amazingly well and can take a perfectly black stain with great results.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:47 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 10:22 am
Posts: 727
First name: Brian
Last Name: McDonald
City: Okanagan Centre
State: British Columbia
Zip/Postal Code: V4V2H6
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Desert ironwood, quite dark, but miserable to work.

B

_________________
My memory is so good, sometimes I remember things that never happened.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:22 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:42 am
Posts: 1577
Location: United States
If you want burl, redwood burl can always be located. I do not know if "Russian Olive" is native, but when a neighbor cut one down, it was dark inside. If you can find an old, sick Red bud (so you can cut it down), it is dark inside.


Last edited by wbergman on Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:27 pm 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:50 pm
Posts: 93
First name: Daniel
Last Name: Oates
City: Sharon
State: Connecticut
Zip/Postal Code: 06069
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Black locust can be oxidized to look black. The sample on top is black locust. The sample below is Gaboon ebony.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:33 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 5968
"I’m definitely not trying it with maple."

Maple heartwood is fairly dark.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:06 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:59 pm
Posts: 3595
First name: Dennis
Last Name: Kincheloe
City: Kansas City
State: MO
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Gold MOP would look good against redwood burl. Sinker redwood is even darker.

Persimmon is mostly light colored, but it can grow fully black wood. Usually pretty gnarly and thin, but you may be able to find a big enough piece for an ukulele headplate, or at least enough to provide a black background for the logo and have lighter wood elsewhere.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:06 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:49 pm
Posts: 1209
Location: Ukiah, CA
Curious as to why you don't want walnut if you are using it elsewhere. Mesquite?

_________________
Ken Franklin
clumsy yet persistent
https://www.kenfranklinukulele.com



These users thanked the author Ken Franklin for the post: gxs (Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:04 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:48 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:42 am
Posts: 1577
Location: United States
Well I tried to post this before, but I do not see it on my screen, so here goes again.

If your definition of North America includes all the way to Panama, then there are lots of "rosewoods" that are dark,e.g. cocobolo, ziricote. If you want any of those, post your dimensions and I may have some scraps--NC.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:07 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 6256
Location: Virginia
You can ebonize white oak and it will be black.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:17 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:12 pm
Posts: 3293
First name: Bryan
Last Name: Bear
City: St. Louis
State: Mo
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
jfmckenna wrote:
You can ebonize white oak and it will be black.


You can do the same with walnut too. The iron acetate treatment does not penetrate very far so you will have to do it after sanding everything flush. Test on scrap so you can match the color of whatever filler you’ll be hiding the gaps with.

_________________
Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:22 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:40 pm
Posts: 500
First name: Ernest
Last Name: Kleinman
City: Guthrie
State: OK
Zip/Postal Code: 73044
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
Persimmon black an white streaks, ziricote ??


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:48 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:43 am
Posts: 1707
You could so the steel wool and vinegar thing on oak


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:30 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:04 am
Posts: 5825
First name: Chris
Last Name: Pile
City: Wichita
State: Kansas
Country: Good old US of A
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
Quote:
You could so the steel wool and vinegar thing on oak


Fuming it with ammonia is less messy.

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:29 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:50 pm
Posts: 122
First name: Bob
Last Name: Howell
City: Atlanta
State: Ga
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
cherry turns dark red over time. Wipe with lye or set out in sun to speed the process up. Even works through oil finish.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:07 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:58 pm
Posts: 192
Location: usa
First name: george
Last Name: s
Country: usa
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
Ken Franklin wrote:
Curious as to why you don't want walnut if you are using it elsewhere. Mesquite?


I was thinking mesquite too. It grows in Texas, AZ, NM, Nevada and C. It can get pretty dark.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:16 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:17 pm
Posts: 1170
City: Escondido
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 92029
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Gibson used holly died black on their headstocks. I assume because it takes die well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:36 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 2:31 pm
Posts: 259
Location: Conway, Arkansas
Thanks everyone. All great ideas! Now I've got plenty to think about.
This forum is great.

_________________
Formerly know as Mandodiddle.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:08 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:47 pm
Posts: 2523
First name: Jay
Last Name: De Rocher
City: Bothell
State: Washington
For those who have combined a staining/fuming/dying/lying/vinegaring wood treatment with inlay, does the darkening method used introduce any issues with doing an inlay? For example, does the darkening effect go deep enough into the wood that you can darken the wood, do the inlay, and then level sand the inlay without worrying about sanding through the dark color into the lighter wood?

_________________
Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:12 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:53 pm
Posts: 481
Location: Canada
Holly dyed black often looks like the best ebony.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:42 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:50 pm
Posts: 3929
Location: United States
Fuming with ammonia works differently with different woods. With porous woods, such as oak, black locust, and osage, the color tends to go all the way through, but it may not with something that's tighter grained. This is one of those places where the old finishers rule of 'try it on scrap first' is essential.

A former student sent me some 'soft shell almond' wood that he got in a fire wood pile in California. It's very hard and tight grained, with a grain that looks lot like cherry, but it's darker and not as red. 'Mountain mahogany' would be another good one, if you can find some. I've got some wood from a plum tree that's also tight grained and quite dark.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:23 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:17 am
Posts: 1286
First name: John
Last Name: Arnold
City: Newport
State: TN
Zip/Postal Code: 37821
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
You can darken cherry with UV or a solution of potassium dichromate. That can be done after the inlay. There is cherry burl, though it may be hard to find. Hampton Brothers Guitars recently acquired some, but I don't know about the size or quality.
You should be able to find Texas ebony that is large enough. I have cut many guitar bridge blanks from it.

_________________
John


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:38 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:46 pm
Posts: 527
First name: Mark
Last Name: McLean
City: Sydney
State: New South Wales
Zip/Postal Code: 2145
Country: Australia
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Generally speaking, ebonizing treatments (i.e. using a chemical to make a wood that is not ebony look as black as ebony) have a very superficial effect. The depth depends on the hardness and porosity of the wood but it is usually less that 1mm. Therefore, it is very easy to sand through the black layer. In a large piece (I recently ebonized an entire neck) you can just retreat the sanded area and it will darken again. But if it was an inlay you would risk darkening the surrounding timber, which would make a mess


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 68 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com