Official Luthiers Forum!

I'm not sure I want to do this yet, how frustrating would it be to build a guitar and RUIN it with stain !

But,
For those of you who have used stain to bring out the highlights / grain of a plate... what has been our process?
What products have you used to best effect?
At what point do you stain the thing? I could see the grain raising then sanding it back and making the stain uneven again..

just seems like a scary prospect.
b

I suppose this is a complicated answer depending on several factors. Are you staining the hardwood body or the soft wood neck. What is the binding/purfling scheme and materials. What finish will you be using. I'm sure you'll get lots of things to consider here so I'll be following along.

Edit: I meant soft wood top (not neck)

_________________
Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

Ah not complicated. All info I should include.
I may use ebony or other very dark binding.
Hardwood body. Figured white oak.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Finish would likely be em6000 again


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’m a rank amateur, so take this with plenty of salt.
I have a build going with figured red oak which I stained with a dark walnut stain, then sanded back. It highlighted the grain but allowed the ray fleck to shine through. There’s a wash of shellac over it as well in this pic. I haven’t top coated it yet.

I did a bunch of testing of different stains and processes on some off-cut scrap to get the effect I wanted. That would be my biggest advice - test on scrap.

Edit - see if this pic works

I have not stained a guitar, but have done many mandolins. There are many ways to do it, but I use water soluable analine dyes and apply by hand with a rag. That is the traditional way for mandolins. Practice on scrap, then practice again. You will probably spend a lot of time fiddling around getting the colour you are after on the scrap.

This can be as complex or simple as you want. sometimes just a wipe of reduced stain is all that is wanted or needed. Some high end PRS type finishes have as many as 12 color steps in a transparent finish.

Did you have a look in mind? show me an example I'll give you an idea.

_________________
Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

You might also use a browser on a PC and do an advanced search of the forum for all posts from the user Haans. He doesn’t post too much any more but I think you’ll get some great examples and info from his work.

I say use a PC because I have yet to find a way to search for a specific user via Tapatalk.

Also, be careful. It’s easy to lose half a day going through someone’s archive on here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

_________________
Insta - https://www.instagram.com/cbcguitars/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/cbcguitars

Hi Mr Howard,
I don’t have a pic. What I do have is an idea.
It’s pretty simple. I have a set of figured white oak I want to use. Basically I want the figure to pop a little more. After all is said and done.

So I imagine I’d do a light coat after the box is done, then sand back to wood leaving the dye in the end grain?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yup:)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The only staining I have done was on a bay window frame almost 30 years ago with tinted water based varnish. It came out nice, but where I filled some nail holes with plastic fill, I got glue ghosts. This was before I started making instruments. Since you are doing oak, I don't think that would be as big of a problem, it doesn't absorb as much as pine or spruce. But on a belly it seems that all glue must be sanded back, and an even coat of sealer put on to prevent blotching.

Try out a bunch of different ideas on scrap first. I hate when the cool, light/dark flip is turned off. Is it color getting into open pores, and killing the flame?

The stain should look very cool when done. That's what the test pieces are for. Why would you sand it back? Every time I've messed with things when they were done, they just got messed up. I would suggest staining tests before and after filling the grain. On the ones stained before, be sure to fill it after, and see what happens then. And even what it looks like with the final finish on. If you don't follow a set plan sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't.

I've messed up many times by not testing first, and knowing EXACTLY what I wanted to do, and how I was going to do it. I also forget to write what I did down, so that I remember EXACTLY what it was I did right!

_________________
Why be normal?

It's not a good idea to do much sanding after staining or dyeing wood. That is just asking for a blotchy and uneven surface. Most stain does not raise the grain, unless it is a water based stain or dye.

I do my staining and pore filling in one step with tinted paste wood pore filler after applying a coat or two of lacquer sealer. I do sand very lightly after this step but only to remove the nibs and filler remaining on the surface.

I am certainly no expert, but this is how I stained my White Oak "Stella" Guitar I made

Pic of back natural color:

I then Stained dark color, and sanded most off:

I then stained ( I was also doing a hand rubbed sunburst on another guitar at same time). I got the colors how I liked, and then sprayed with Shellac to seal the colors. Then finished as I finish all my guitars from there.


Glenn

Oak is pretty porous and wicks in stain so sanding back to highlight evenly is tough. Typically on oak furniture we used a single wipe of reduced stain to pop the figure. Another trick is to use a dye rather then an oil stain, apply it and then wipe it back if after it dries 5-10 minutes with a rag wet with the correct solvent. Similar effect to sanding back.

_________________
Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

Kudos to the guys using oak. Pretty dramatic finishes pictured here.

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Here’s the back in question. Fresh in from Aaron



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I miss Haans. Maybe he sees this and starts posting again?

You might consider "ebonizing" it. It seems to work pretty good on white oak. I used vinegar, rusty steel wool,rusty nails and let sit for about a week, then rub it on. This is a white oak dreadnaught made from an old table top.

I have done one oak guitar. I corresponded with Hans and with Glenn and this is what I did. I made lots of samples, then raised the grain 6 times before the Scottish White Oak behaved. I used a dark brown (not black like Hans used) filler, used dyes (Colortone from S-M) dissolved in water as I find it is easier to blend with water than alcohol. I used a combination of browns and reds, applied in layers. Once the dyes are on the way you like them, they can be dissolved with either water or alcohol, so I rattle-can sprayed shellac gently in multiple thin thin coats to avoid runs. Then I leveled with 400 to get rid of almost all hollows - careful not to sand through. Then I applied KT-9, which is not made anymore. I brush applied it, and hand polished it.

The final shot is pretty accurate to the color I ended up with - the neck is German White Oak. The guitar is a ladder braced J-185 body with a 12 fret neck. It took about 1-1/2 years to open up, and now sounds mellow and rich.

Good luck