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I work on a lot of old martins. Here is something you may find interesting. This is an old ice cream cone heel joint that I had to redo. The artistry of the old craftsmen is fascinating.

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

more pics

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

That's very cool thanks for sharing.

I like it!
Now I just need to figure out how to make it.

Thank you for taking the time to post this, John.
Do you think it is stronger than a dovetail?
Alan

Wow!! so cool- I have never seen one of those apart like that.

Thanks very much for posting

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Burton
http://www.legeytinstruments.com
Brookline, MA.

Dovetail for the dovetail - cool.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

this is a pretty strong joint but very labor intensive. This joint did fail and I had to take it apart. The Ice cream cone was a dovetail neck joint.
The key to this , is when I put it back together . The key tenon is ramped and had to grab the heel then lock into the neck barrel. The mechanics of this neck is remarkable. The execution of the craftsman was impeccable.

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

John, very cool , thanks for posting that. Only thing I can say with certainty- I cannot do a joint like that.

Very impressive!

Hi John,
Do you think the loose tenon was part of the original construction, or would it have been added at a later date as a repair?

that tenon is part of the system.
The tenon grabs the heel then pulls that into the neck barrel. That was the hardest part of the joint. It was surprising stiff on the dry fit

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Nice thread. So what was the actual failure?

the glue on the heels miter let go and all the stress was on the key tenon. So when I did the neck reset the heel would open to the string tension. Once apart , it was allowed a week to acclimate and hhg to reassemble.

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it