Official Luthiers Forum!

I don't think repairers should worry too much though -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGPzHT9mMM4
Surprised at this marketing when they tout how good the dovetail is sonically....not really, anything to sell hype.
Not that I don't think it's an idea worth considering of course.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

That's a dream come true!

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Hutch

Get the heck off the couch and go build a guitar!!!!

Yeah, adjustable neck joints are an excellent feature. If I were going to do anything other than my beloved integral necks, it would be that. But I have yet to come up with a design that's lightweight, nice looking, and not too difficult to construct.

The beauty of that system is that the neck slides when it's adjusted, so in not changing the neck angle there is a negligible change in string length. Seems it would require a steel linear bearing and a threaded adjuster, which would add some weight. BTW, it's been gone from the Martin site for some years. Another good idea that never caught on.

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

But when it needs a reset, then look out.

Ed

Yep, that video was from 12 years ago.

no longer in production

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

The neck angle on my travel guitars is adjustable by turning the bolt that allows the neck to be removed. It is kind of an incidental part of the design. Small adjustments can change the action considerably. Aside from some small additional "fall away" after the 12th fret I haven't noticed any ill effects.

Thought it was a new feature, just came up in my feed.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Am I mistaken in that the 12 year old Martin neck adjustent is straight up and down so only changes the action, not the neck angle?

Ed

Righto.Your'e not mistaken.

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

When you do a neck reset you change the neck angle. Aside from adding a little "fall away" over the body it helps more than it hurts.

Yes, but I believe another important factor is that it doesn't change the string height at the saddle, hence string torque on the bridge is constant (almost)

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Three things:

1). Related... Martin no longer covers neck resets under warranty unless there is a visible separation indicating a materials or workmanship issue.

2). "No need to fear atomic energy because none of them can stop the time." Bob Marley. Or, in other words no need to fear neck resets and if you are a builder who sells your stuff you should know how to reset a neck properly. It's not difficult, it's very profitable when you know what you are doing, and it's saves.... old instruments and allows them to play another day, what can be more rewarding than this alone?

3). Although different in function slightly Herman Hauser had a very similar design complete with metal key to make the adjustment with.

4). If you were able to get Bob Taylor drunk and ask him honestly if he would go though all the debate over his better mouse trap bolt on, easy to reset neck system again my bet is that it would depend on what day you asked him as to how he answered. Or, in other words the debate over the sonic purity........ BS..... of a dovetail vs. other systems was bloody and no one can claim complete victory. Who wants to do that again.....

5). Thinking is changing about neck resets and Martin is leading the way. Both Dave and I believe that a neck reset is just something you have to do in the normal course of guitar ownership for some guitars. My Honda needs it's timing belt changed at 100,000 miles (and that costs just about as much as a neck reset) and other products need other major things in time, it's expected.

6). Yep, as mentioned that video is very old and obviously since these never caught on maybe this design is simply not all that...

Did that actually ever make it out into the wild? I have never seen one.

lots of misinformation
the adjustable neck can have an angle change , there is a mechanism that makes this straight forward. Once the proper shims are installed then the neck is basically raised and lowered by a screw mechanism. The shims are used to make angle adjustments. A few screws on the back give access to the joint.

as for martin not covering neck resets that isn't true also. They do cover them but it is usually within a 5 year period or if the neck joint loosens .

there were a number of adjustable necks made. hause , even Martin had one but I don't think any became successes .

the neck reset is a basic repair of most guitars will require at some point.

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Hey John call your Martin rep or stop by and ask them about this. There has been a change and they tell us that they will not cover a neck reset unless there is a visible gap indicating workmanship or materials defects. Again this is new.

BTW I would never cover neck resets if I were a major manufacturer of guitars. It's expected that the neck angle will deteriorate over time and carrying this level of potential liability (doing and covering a neck reset perhaps 50 years out....) would sink any company.

If I recall correctly, Martin only warranted the guitar to the original owner, everyone else paid to have it done. At 50 years out not many guitars will still be held by the original owner. The only guitar I've had for 50 years is an old plywood Giannini my parents bought me when I was a kid. That's probably because it has more sentimental value than real value.
I tune in to the AGF occasionally and it seems people are always buying and selling guitars. It would be interesting to know how many people buy a new guitar and keep it long enough to need a reset.

I did. Bought a new Martin O16-NY in '67 or '68, did a neck reset, and more, on it about 3 years ago.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

martin changed the neck set coverage a few years ago. Today if you need on most under 5 yrs are covered but it there are instances that it may not. I get out to Martin about every 2 weeks so I am very close to them Hesh.

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

I know Jeff Babicz and have played many of his guitars with his patented neck adjustment system. They play and sound great.

I think his system is amazing-you can go from super low electric style action to bottle neck high action simply by turning an allen key without the guitar going out of tune because you are raising and lowering the neck-not angling it.

He hand makes them and has models that are produced in a factory. They also have several other patented features that are unique to his guitars- He also makes innovative electric guitar hardware-check out his website
http://www.fullcontacthardware.com

Martin should focus on keeping binding on their guitars. Unreal. What a joke. Who cares about Martin neck resets - easy. 20+ years and they still can't figure out how to glue binding on a guitar.

Pretty slick design, Clay I hadn't really considered going for full detachability at the same time as adjustbility, and it looks to fulfill my other requirements pretty nicely as well. For fret leveling, do you have to have it supported at the tail and headstock with some weight in the middle to hold it together?

Would it bother you if I copy it? I may not anyway since the fall away effect and slight change in fret distance when adjusting irritates my perfectionism a bit. But if I make the fingerboard extension part of the neck then it won't fold up as small, and would either make construction more difficult or require negative neck angle which I don't like the feel of (guitar wants to tip forward out of my hands). And at least when new and adjusted to the action height that the board was leveled for, it should be as close to perfect as any guitar.

Martin covered a D-35 reset that we did 52 years out for the original owner. The warranty is and has always only been for the original owner. Martin is also very flexible with their clients in covering things, it's been cool for us to watch a great company that genuinely cares about their clients operate.

I think the Martin neck reset will become obsolete, most modern Martins will not be worth the cost of a reset.

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