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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:17 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 6256
Location: Virginia
Joe Beaver wrote:
Yes, I put a light spray on the inside when I expect the guitar to live in a humid climate. It won't stop moisture absorption but it does slow it down. If the player brings the guitar out to the patio on warm southern night for an hour or so, it won't mean instant potato chipping with the wood and finish problems that follow. The repair guy may have to do a little scraping before cleating somewhere down the road but so be it.

And that makes perfect sense to me.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:16 am 
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Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 13388
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
City: Ann Arbor
State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
I guess that some of you guys also won't mind when someone who purchases one of your guitars and plays out has his pup transducers or mic fall off and into the box during a performance.

Who made your guitar that stopped the show the audience might ask?

More specifically some of the most popular pick-ups today including K&K and LR Baggs rely on either the player or someone else installing mics and transducers that are supposed to be adhered and in the case of K&K glued to the bridge plate. Other brands rely on self stick adhesives too requiring the installer to remove finish.

While we are at it and I don't have time to post this in the finish the inside of the box thread how many battery bags have come loose and also created issues for the clients/players/performers? Battery bags rely on self stick velcro being adhered to your favorite interior place in the box and then bearing the weight and torque of a battery in a bag trying to remain attached as the player, airport goons, shipping companies, etc put the instrument through gymnastics.

In all cases the finish needs to be removed for just what would be a simple pup installation. The very few times I encounter a guitar with finish on the inside and my guess would be it's less than 1/4 of 1% of the time I will and do charge the clients more for my time in securing things as I must or getting that finish out of the way of my glues.

Regarding Somogyi. His tops are at times .080" and thinner. They react even faster to RH swings AND he lattice braces and even couples braces into and on top of bridge plates. Top distortion can be seen on his excellent creations as a result and it's also one of the reasons why his instruments sound amazing, not the finish but the very light construction AND careful selection of superior materials. Although finishing the inside will do nothing in my experience to prevent a crack that has a day or two to have stresses created it may work for an hour.... an hour... in slowing moisture absorption or exiting to or from the wood. With this said I don't see any benefit in this practice and consider it a poor practice for most but can see why Ervin does it and also appreciate the benefits of why he has to do it with his awesome instruments.

But as always do what ever you guys wish. When I was learning here over a decade ago we were all sticklers for keeping things serviceable and used to argue with knock down drag outs over issues such as finishing with the neck on (I did this too early on) and other poor practices. But most of us, the ones still in the game with real life clients, honored warranties, decent reputations always seem to be keen to learn about serviceability over defending their/our past practices. We were here to learn and back then the OLF helped me personally a great deal.

Thanks


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:24 am 
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Contributing Member
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Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:52 pm
Posts: 3076
First name: Don
Last Name: Parker
City: Charleston
State: West Virginia
Zip/Postal Code: 25314
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
There is an interesting dynamic in guitar building.

On the one hand, guitars have developed to be what they are for good reasons. What they are works. Some things that were tried before, over multiple generations, didn’t work as well. We builders would do well to have the humility to remember that before we go trying to build a better mousetrap.

On the other hand, every discipline should be open to new ideas and to progress when it really is progress. Sometimes, an aspect of a guitar was driven by manufacturing realities and efficiencies in a specific factory setting in the past, rather than by the question of what is best for the guitar. The old way might not be all that applicable to a hand builder in the 21st century of the Common Era. In rare instances, there might be a better mousetrap.

I try hard to look at every question like this and use a thought process specific to my situation in order to determine what is best. In my view, for my guitars, finishing the inside of a guitar that I build has more negatives than positives.



These users thanked the author doncaparker for the post: Barry Daniels (Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:04 am)
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:39 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:55 pm
Posts: 3820
Location: Taiwan
First name: Tai
Last Name: Fu
City: Taipei
Country: Taiwan
Focus: Repair
Status: Semi-pro
I thought double sided tape stuck better to smooth (finished) surfaces.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:58 am 
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Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 13388
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
City: Ann Arbor
State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
Here's a decades worth of archived threads on the same subject. Interestingly you can see the growth in some builders as their opinions morph over time as their experience levels increase. You can also see a lot of folks who are no longer building and participating on the forum.

Blast from the past.

Oh yeah. I went to "search" put the string "finishing the inside" in quotes as the primary search key and selected all forums and this is what resulted.

https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=50609&hilit=+finishing+the+inside+

https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=48986&hilit=+finishing+the+inside+

https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=44743&hilit=+finishing+the+inside+

https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=39019&p=511692&hilit=+finishing+the+inside+#p511692

https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=37583&hilit=+finishing+the+inside+

https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=25066&p=340547&hilit=+finishing+the+inside+#p340547


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:26 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 6256
Location: Virginia
I would think double stick tape would stick to a finish better too?

We all shellac the binding channel before using CA to glue in bindings too and they don't pop loose regularly.

Does Somogyi actually finish the underside of the top too?


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