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I think that’s a fine looking instrument:)

As a customer: if I had picked the top ... i should be happy with it...

I don’t understand how he could continue to be displeased if he is picking the top......




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It seems to me that this client is picky yes, but not necessarily combative or extra challenging. And it sounds like the picky part was evident right from the get go, a pristine top was a must right from the top and that was the end goal everyone agreed on. Having said that he did choose the top that was eventually used. If it was me I'd probably do the same as was initially offered by the OP, he could have his money back, start the process over, or buy the guitar as is, but I wouldn't give an extra discount. And I'd probably be honest with him and let him know my preference would be to refund him his money. Not because he's a bad guy, or the relationship had soured, but because some situations just end up jinxed (even though I don't feel exceptionally superstitious.)

I don't want to start a war or offend anyone here ... so please take what I say as me just sharing MY opinion. Ultimately, I feel that several of you are missing an important point here and I think that poorly reflects on the lutherie community in terms of providing and delivering what the customer asks for. Again, just my own opinion but I feel it's worth sharing.


For the record, the customer didn't want any runout. They wanted a primo top that hits a level of quality like the one in the photo below (BTW, it's Engelmann which is notorious for runout). Most customers aren't skilled luthiers. They know very little about picking out tops much less being able to discern subtle runout from no runout in a top. There is no way that McKenna's client should be expected to find and acquire a top for the build -- this is the builder's responsibility. I've thrown away countless great tops because of finding subtle runout. Now I'm pretty good at eliminating them when I source them rather than some time into the build process. Regardless, it's entirely up to the builder to determine if they can meet the client's requests -- which going by the OP's post, was explicitly stated by the client.

I agree .. it's a beautiful guitar with a great looking top. Runout does bother me and so I wouldn't build with a top like that but that's just my pet peeve. If I was commissioning a guitar and requested no runout, then I would expect no runout if the luthier accepted my order. IMO, McKenna's client is not unreasonable. I think McKenna is responding well to this situation and I hope he gives the client the discount he wants, a full refund, or builds them a new guitar without runout. Handling it any other way could result in a situation that really heads south.

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The real lesson here is to know your limitations. For example, you may have a difficult time getting rid of subtle runout. No worries, it sure hasn't hurt Somogyi or Traugott to build with tops with a bit of runout. You may struggle with finish work or other aspects of the build. Or maybe you don't like the sound of your guitars with certain tonewoods. Regardless, it is so incredibly important that you educate your customers about your work and ensure that your standards are aligned at the start of a build. I think this issue is particularly important for those of you who have just started building for profit (if there is such a thing . Failure to do so will cost you a lot of time and money and potentially result in an angry customer.

That is a lovely top!

That being said, feel free to throw your throwaways at me, I'm always in need of decent tops, and a little runout doesn't bother me:)

Will do ... although, I've gotten pretty good as of late with eliminating tops with that will show even the slightest color difference across the joint.

this sounds like a nightmare that gets worse as time passes. If I was in OP's shoes, I'd be taking the advice that says refund the purchaser his funds and call it a day. I'd also be visiting my attorney to draft a contract to be used in future work that states how I'd keep control of my time and limit the ability of customers to whipsaw me into untenable positions. The customer is not always right, you can't get a Ford with a Chevy engine. And shouldn't be allowed to start a conversation about it.

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Peter Havriluk

Perhaps after getting that refund check out and decoupling from your customer of note, do Mr. the Cat a great favor and refer this gentleman onward to him...you'll play matchmaker and Mr. the Cat will gain the opportunity of a lifetime to work with a discerning, knowledgeable gentleman of exquisitely developed tastes and opinions.

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For the times they are a changin'

- Bob Dylan

" it is so incredibly important that you educate your customers about your work and ensure that your standards are aligned at the start of a build."

I agree with this completely. I make buyers aware they are not going to get a 5 figure priced instrument for a 3 figure price. Hopefully it will be between the two, but that is for them to decide. I try to keep things on a "take it or leave it" basis, with no offence taken or given with the out come.
I don't think either of the original parties are being completely unreasonable, but after failing to find a satisfactory resolution after all the time and effort has been expended, it is time to throw in the towel.

As a side note - I have seen tops with great cosmetic qualities like the one posted, that didn't have the physical qualities to match. That is one reason I maintain control over the materials I use.