Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Sat Nov 30, 2024 2:40 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Scored some BRW
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:31 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:58 pm
Posts: 1449
First name: Ed
Last Name: Minch
City: Chestertown
State: MD
Zip/Postal Code: 21620
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
A vintage tool friend was a couple of tables down from me at an event last weekend. He said he had something to show me. He and his wife are moving 250 miles away and he said he wanted to give me some wood. Turns out it is 2 very nice Brazilian Rosewood boards. He had bought a pick-up truck load of wood from an old guy who was divesting - he paid $100. The load was full of thick quarter sawn cherry, some very nice mahogany boards, a bit if light colored wood that could be ash or maybe hickory, various other thicker pieces, and these two boards were at the bottom of the stack. He bought them 8 years ago, so they may be decades old.

He said I could have it as long as he got enough to build the early L-0 that he showed me plans for - 13" wide, 19" long. Looks like enough for 2 guitars in there.

The longer one will make 32" sides with 18" leftover for a couple of fretboards and bridges. It is 1-3/8" thick and has 4-1/2 good inches of width, so hoping to get 4 side pieces out of it. The shorter one is 28" long with 5-1/2" width, so a 3 piece back will make almost 16 inches, but his parlor size and my desire to build a similar size means there will be plenty of width. I am hoping to get 6 pieces out of the 1-3/4" thick piece.

So here they are. Please tell me what you think - Is the shorter, thicker one stump wood? Do you see any defects in there that might make bending difficult - 1st picture, center of the longer piece? The thicker piece has reasonably vertical grain, whereas the thinner piece not so much - and that is the one that will be bent onto sides.

Had no plans to build a rosewood guitar - have used maple, ash, osage orange, oak and mahogany in my amateur instruments. What are the chances of coming up with free BRW?

Ed


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scored some BRW
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:44 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:02 am
Posts: 3263
Location: The Woodlands, Texas
First name: Barry
Last Name: Daniels
Looks like the real deal. That one board is even quarter sawn.

You ought to be able to get more than 4 sides out of that thick piece. I would take it to a specialist resaw company that is capable of narrow kerf resawing. Another set would more than pay for itself.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scored some BRW
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:49 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:59 pm
Posts: 3595
First name: Dennis
Last Name: Kincheloe
City: Kansas City
State: MO
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Yep, send that to David Borson. He has an excellent setup for resawing high value woods like this.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scored some BRW
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:19 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:58 pm
Posts: 1449
First name: Ed
Last Name: Minch
City: Chestertown
State: MD
Zip/Postal Code: 21620
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Dennis

Do you have a contact for David Borson? Also - do you see any problems there??

Thanks

Ed


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scored some BRW
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:18 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:59 pm
Posts: 3595
First name: Dennis
Last Name: Kincheloe
City: Kansas City
State: MO
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
borsonresaw.com

That knot or whatever it is in the long board does look like it could cause bending trouble. But hopefully it doesn't go too deep, so you can get some fully clear slices in addition to the iffy ones. If you can position it in the relatively flat area below the waist, that would reduce the chance of cracking.

The shorter rectangular board looks like you can get some great backs from it. I don't think it's stump wood, but I'm no expert at identifying it.

I'd go with 4 piece rather than 3 piece backs. Use some offcuts to widen out the lower bout, and carefully match the grain so they're mostly invisible.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scored some BRW
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:28 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:50 pm
Posts: 2257
Location: Seattle WA
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Ed, it would be a crime to not get eight sides and eight back pieces out of those. Perfectly doable on a 14 inch saw with a resaw king. Awesome setup of course.

If that's the guy in California with the water cooled Laguna, you could do that, but he was charging like $30 a slice 10 years ago.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

_________________
Pat


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scored some BRW
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:24 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:15 pm
Posts: 1701
First name: Joey
Last Name: Holliday
City: Palmetto
State: Florida
Zip/Postal Code: 34221
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Take that to Hibdon, it's right in your back yard. Don't mess around with shipping back and fourth. I could re-saw it myself but you're much better off taking it to the mill, watching it get re-sawed and put right back into your hands with no shipping fees/wondering. Since you are in MD Hibdon might be an hour or two away. Well worth the drive.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scored some BRW
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:45 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:31 pm
Posts: 1682
First name: Kevin
Last Name: Looker
City: Worthington
State: OH
Zip/Postal Code: 43085
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
fingerstyle1978 wrote:
Take that to Hibdon, it's right in your back yard. Don't mess around with shipping back and fourth. I could re-saw it myself but you're much better off taking it to the mill, watching it get re-sawed and put right back into your hands with no shipping fees/wondering. Since you are in MD Hibdon might be an hour or two away. Well worth the drive.


Isn't Hibdon in St. Louis?

I'm not offering to resaw those boards, too much stress, but with my Woodmaster CT which isn't exactly a thin kerf blade, I could get:

1-3/8" => 7 slices @ 0.145" ea
1-3/4" => 8 slices @ .1663" ea
Those numbers are assuming perfectly flat & straight boards.

From what I've heard about Borson, he could get more. Just my $0.02.

Kevin Looker

_________________
I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scored some BRW
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:03 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:58 pm
Posts: 1449
First name: Ed
Last Name: Minch
City: Chestertown
State: MD
Zip/Postal Code: 21620
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Kevin

Can you reliably get a 1/16" kerf down the whole length of a 30" board with no enlargement either direction at all? Good trick.

Ed


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scored some BRW
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:02 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 6256
Location: Virginia
Call Colonial Hardwoods in Springfield VA. They used to cut wood for me many years ago. That stuff looks usable to me. Unless there are hidden defects you could get 8 sets at $1000 bucks a set. Winner! Nice score!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scored some BRW
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:04 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 10:11 am
Posts: 2173
Be careful trying to get too much out of it.

For years I sold instrument wood to Luthiers so I have a lot of experience resawing

You are better off getting one less slice than having pieces too thin to work with.

A friend of mine had a "proffesional" resawyer cut some koa for him and in my opinion several of the slices were just too thin to use for backs. They were .100 so by the time you joined them and got past the saw marks you would be lucky to get .075 out of them-too thin!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scored some BRW
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:15 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 10:22 am
Posts: 727
First name: Brian
Last Name: McDonald
City: Okanagan Centre
State: British Columbia
Zip/Postal Code: V4V2H6
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Brad Goodman wrote:
Be careful trying to get too much out of it.

For years I sold instrument wood to Luthiers so I have a lot of experience resawing

You are better off getting one less slice than having pieces too thin to work with.

U


What he says. Ask me how I know. The temptation is big, but there are no do-overs.

B

_________________
My memory is so good, sometimes I remember things that never happened.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scored some BRW
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:30 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:15 pm
Posts: 1701
First name: Joey
Last Name: Holliday
City: Palmetto
State: Florida
Zip/Postal Code: 34221
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
klooker wrote:
fingerstyle1978 wrote:
Take that to Hibdon, it's right in your back yard. Don't mess around with shipping back and fourth. I could re-saw it myself but you're much better off taking it to the mill, watching it get re-sawed and put right back into your hands with no shipping fees/wondering. Since you are in MD Hibdon might be an hour or two away. Well worth the drive.


Isn't Hibdon in St. Louis?

I'm not offering to resaw those boards, too much stress, but with my Woodmaster CT which isn't exactly a thin kerf blade, I could get:

1-3/8" => 7 slices @ 0.145" ea
1-3/4" => 8 slices @ .1663" ea
Those numbers are assuming perfectly flat & straight boards.

From what I've heard about Borson, he could get more. Just my $0.02.

Kevin Looker


I don't blame you there, way too much stress for me as well.

I may have been thinking of Colonial, not Hibdon. I used to enjoy re-sawing wood, but not so much any more unless it's an incredible savings. I'd much rather spend the time building. I have the Woodmaster CT as well and it does a great job [:Y:] Next time around I'm going to try the re-saw king which is a bit thinner.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scored some BRW
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:37 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 6256
Location: Virginia
I have a dedicated resaw now and I LOVE cutting my own wood. Once you have the right saw for the job it's pure pleasure. But anyway... Brad has very good advice. I usually go for 1/8th inch sanded. I do however have a lot of Imbuia floor boards that are 3/4in thick and I get 4 out of those if I'm lucky and they come in at about .1 finished. You really need to have your joining skills down and make sure they come together flush. Best to have a little wiggle room though, for sure.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scored some BRW
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:41 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 5968
"Unless there are hidden defects you could get 8 sets at $1000 bucks a set."

Don't you mean 4 sets?

If I were cutting it I would shoot for 6 pieces from the long piece for sides. The shorter thicker piece should yield 8 pieces. I would take one of those 8 pieces and cut it on the diagonal to give two pieces 2 inches wide on one end and 3 1/2 inches wide on the other and make a three piece back similar to what Martin did on the D35. That would give you 3 complete sets big enough to make larger bodied guitars. If you sliced one of the back pieces off before cutting the backs to length you could off set the diagonal pieces to give even greater widths in the center section.
There are a fair number of Brazilian rosewood parlor guitars, and not as much demand for them.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scored some BRW
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:41 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:31 pm
Posts: 1682
First name: Kevin
Last Name: Looker
City: Worthington
State: OH
Zip/Postal Code: 43085
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Ruby50 wrote:
Kevin

Can you reliably get a 1/16" kerf down the whole length of a 30" board with no enlargement either direction at all? Good trick.

Ed


Yes, the blade has a kerf of 0.051 and I can get a consistent 0.0625 as long as the board is perfectly flat and doesn't have any hidden stresses that cause it to come off the fence. I also have a 36" saw with a 5HP motor that helps.

_________________
I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scored some BRW
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:10 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 10:22 am
Posts: 727
First name: Brian
Last Name: McDonald
City: Okanagan Centre
State: British Columbia
Zip/Postal Code: V4V2H6
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
[/quoteYes, the blade has a kerf of 0.051 and I can get a consistent 0.0625 as long as the board is perfectly flat and doesn't have any hidden stresses that cause it to come off the fence. I also have a 36" saw with a 5HP motor that helps.[/quote]

The flat face is key, it always seems such a shame to joint the face and lose possibly a slice or two but it is unavoidable. Presizing to as close as possible to finished dimensions may reduce the loss from jointing.
My results mirror what Kevin has indicated.

B

_________________
My memory is so good, sometimes I remember things that never happened.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scored some BRW
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:48 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:14 am
Posts: 819
First name: Tim
Last Name: Lynch
City: Santa Cruz
Zip/Postal Code: 95060
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
That does not look like stump wood to me.

I'm with Brad when I cut my own wood and opt for 1 less slice to insure what I do cut is useable. I have seen wood that Borson has cut and he backs up his advertising with results from what I saw. Everything was flat, parallel and held to a repetitive dimension. You do have to buy him a new saw blade and he will square the wood up before cutting, but you would need to do that also. For maximum yield he's the man.
The longer piece that runs from rift to flat sawn looks like there may be some checking. Not only on the end but by the way it has separated on the top. Not sure how that may affect your yield


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scored some BRW
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:01 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:58 pm
Posts: 1449
First name: Ed
Last Name: Minch
City: Chestertown
State: MD
Zip/Postal Code: 21620
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Thanks everyone

I have a local luthery shop that produces a lot of instruments and gives classes, and has one guy in the shop who specializes in resawing. I will post again when I have results. Fingers crossed.

I NEVER thought I would be ale to build with BRW - he said not counting any chickens

Ed



These users thanked the author Ruby50 for the post: Pmaj7 (Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:46 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scored some BRW
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:05 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:12 pm
Posts: 3293
First name: Bryan
Last Name: Bear
City: St. Louis
State: Mo
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
As they say, refrain from enumerating your embryonic poultry until the process of incubation has fully materialized.

_________________
Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.



These users thanked the author Bryan Bear for the post (total 2): Dave Rickard (Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:50 pm) • Pmaj7 (Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:46 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scored some BRW
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:17 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:58 pm
Posts: 1449
First name: Ed
Last Name: Minch
City: Chestertown
State: MD
Zip/Postal Code: 21620
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Spent the day with a luthier friend who has nice equipment. He generously spent enough time to do this wood justice.

1) The shorter piece was ready for the saw at just over 1-5/8", and we got 10 pieces out of it at .125. We got 2 really good sets, 2 pretty darn good sets, and one that might not be usable due to cracks (biggies). They are 28" long and could work for sides in a smaller guitar. They are 6-1/4" wide

2) The longer piece for sides was ready at a little less than 1-5/16" and we got 7 pieces at .095. This longer piece had enough cracks in it that we only got 2 sets of sides that are really good, and one set that will be a problem, with the last piece being pretty raunchy. They are 29-1/2" long by 5" wide

3) And there was enough left over for perhaps 5 fretboards and a load of bridges and head plates

4) This is the early Gibson L-0 mold for a guitar that I like to build. Only need a small addition to the lower bout which will be easy to get out of the scrap near the top

5) The cardboard pattern is the profiled side for that guitar size/shape

All in all a fun day with pleasant smells all around and great surprises as we opened the wood. Had no intention of using any kind of rosewood and here I got some BRW from a friend

thanks for looking

Ed


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scored some BRW
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:21 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:36 am
Posts: 7380
Location: Southeast US
City: Lenoir City
State: TN
Zip/Postal Code: 37772
Country: US
Focus: Repair
Ed, that's going to make some real pretty guitars, enjoy!

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scored some BRW
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:40 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:59 pm
Posts: 3595
First name: Dennis
Last Name: Kincheloe
City: Kansas City
State: MO
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
You hit the jackpot there! Glad the resawing went well. You can always do BRW back with Indian rosewood sides, if you don't want to build ukuleles with the extra backs. Don Parker posted a couple months ago about an ebay vendor called Exotic Wood Zone, who sells really nice stuff including side sets without backs http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=51408
I haven't bought anything from them myself, but the temptation is hard to resist :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scored some BRW
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:24 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:14 am
Posts: 819
First name: Tim
Last Name: Lynch
City: Santa Cruz
Zip/Postal Code: 95060
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
That is a nice hour glass figure and good color. You should be able to cut some wings to match the lower bouts. Should make nice guitars


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scored some BRW
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:48 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:50 pm
Posts: 2257
Location: Seattle WA
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
There you go!

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

_________________
Pat


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 79 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com