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I had posted a week or so back asking about planers and drum sanders. I’ve now stumbled on an opportunity to purchase a used Laguna LT18 Band Saw, with mobile base and multiple blades for $975. I’ve talked with the gentleman and he is holding it until Friday morning (his first available time). He has committed to give me the first opportunity to purchase.

I don’t own a band saw currently and I could certainly benefit from having a tool that could easily and accurately resaw plates for tops and backs, produce neck blanks, brace stock, etc.

I realize it runs on 220 and I can add a 220 outlet to my box across the basement without an issue.

This seems *on paper* like a great deal on a high end brand of saw, but I honestly don’t own any tools nearly this expensive, so I would like to lean on the wisdom of others here for feedback. I truly appreciate any guidance you can offer. Thank you!


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Mark Dillon \\ Dillon Instruments :::====( o || )

It’s a good deal but will you really use it to its potential? Any well tuned 14” bandsaw will do everything you’d need apart from resawing backs and tops.

You really have to ask yourself in this early stage of starting, what basic tools do I need to build my first 10-20 guitars? I can tell you that a re-saw isn’t one of them.

Spend money and time sawing wood for guitars or making guitars?

That $975 will go along way towards clamps and planes and chisels and luthier specific tools and a host of other power tools you’d use more readily.


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Yolo...buy it....

If you can afford it, and have the room, buy it! Bigger Has always been better for me and at that price it is always easily resellable. Be prepared to spring for a good Lenox Woodmaster CT blade and you'll have a great resaw. Don't buy Laguna blades. Don't expect it to take the place of a smaller saw. They are more practical for the everyday sawing with 1/4" or 3/8" carbon steel blades.

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It’s a good deal, but is it proportional to the rest of what you will be using? I guess the big question is whether you see yourself taking advantage of all that a very large bandsaw offers, or would a more modest bandsaw meet your needs, fit in better with the size and quality of your other tools, and free up money to spend on things you really need. I side with Rod on this one. I remember from your other thread that you do have budget constraints. If that is true, I think a less massive bandsaw is a better fit for you.

For context, and anticipating other tool purchases you need to consider, would it help if I tell you what stationary power tools I have? I’m not a professional builder; just someone who enjoys building guitars, and who needs a woodworking shop for other projects. I am probably on the “more heavily tooled up” end of the amateur spectrum. Here are my stationary tools:

Kreg “benchtop” router table, with router lift
Jet 17” drill press, designed for woodworking
Clear Vue cyclone dust collector
Ridgid hybrid table saw, with the shortest fence Vega makes
Homemade 12” disc sander
Homemade 24” motorized dish sander
Jet 14” bandsaw with riser
Performax ShopPro 25 drum sander
Ridgid spindle/belt sander

The only tool I own that needs 220v is the Clear Vue. It and the drum sander are arguably the tools I own that could be considered out of character with the rest of the tools; they are both pretty hefty. But the Clear Vue is a respiratory health investment for my family, and the drum sander was such a crazy good deal (in a geographic area that is a wasteland for good used tools) that I had to buy it.

I consider my 14” bandsaw with riser to be all the bandsaw I need. But I don’t start with logs and make lumber. I start with tops, backs and sides from dealers. The most resawing I do is on neck woods.

I have no need for a jointer; I can do that task in other ways. Same with a planer. The only lathe I own is a small benchtop hobbyist metal lathe for making very small things like bridge pins. I don’t turn table legs or bowls; I can visit another shop if I ever need something turned.

Then there are the handheld routers, laminate trimmers, hand drills, hand tools, a bending iron, a decent workbench, etc., etc. It all adds up. Bottom line: save some money for other tools. You can do with a smaller bandsaw.

If you're wanting to resaw, that seems like a great deal. Resawing will create a lot of dust too so you'll have to deal with that.

I have used a 14" Delta with riser block to resaw but a bigger saw that can handle a larger blade like the Lennox Woodmaster CT will work much better.

Check it out under power to make sure everything runs smoothly.

Kevin Looker

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I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

You would be surprised with how much you can do with a Ricon 10" bench top band saw. As previously mentioned, unless you want to resaw backs, sides, or tops, you really don't need a big band saw. I would suggest it would be better to buy B&S and top sets ready to go. I would further suggest that a drum sander (if you don't have one) would be better priority purchase. BTW - I have "resawn" sides (of limited width) with my table saw for a 3-piece back. I couldn't do without my Jet 10-20 drum sander...

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Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com

If you have the money I would suggest you buy it. It will do all that the smaller 14 inch saw can do plus many things a 14 inch saw would struggle with. By the time you add a riser block and a larger motor the cost will be about the same for the 14 inch saw (and the Laguna will be better). Resawing is a great way to save on instrument woods, particularly if you are using domestic woods local to your area. You don't need to buy an expensive carbide blade for occasional resawing, a steel blade will work O.K.. You can use narrower blades on a larger saw without any problems, and although longer blades cost more, they last longer.
I have a 14 inch saw I use frequently, and a 20 inch bandsaw I use occasionally. I would use the larger saw more if it wasn't in a shed with stuff piled around it (I also have accumulated a large cast iron bandsaw (sitting in the yard under a tarp) and a couple of craftsman 12inch saws (gathering dust -too much TAS)). But if I only had one, a Laguna 18 would be a good choice.

Be sure to check it in actual use. I've a friend who bought a Laguna 18", and it can't even cut neck blanks without bogging down.

Aside from, that, an 18" resaw is at the end of a long list of things you actually need to build guitars, and you can get by quite well without having a resaw at all. You recently cited budget constraints, I don't think a resaw is where you should start. Spend it on a drum sander and dust collection.

Seems a few are for it and a few against! Haha. Regardless, all have given me things to consider. Thanks for taking your time and for the well rounded advice!

I'm still on the fence, largely because I don't have a table saw in my shop. It appeals to have a tool with a larger table and solid fence—admittedly not only for guitar building, but for the ever present cabinet making projects. Perfectly content to pass on the Laguna though if it's been beat up or doesn't run 100% perfect. I am meeting him at 9am CST tomorrow.

A bit of an explanation as to why I switched directions on the drum sander (for the time being at least) and have looked at Bandsaws.

I sharpened my plane irons again and gave another shot at thicknessing a back 100% by hand. It went extremely well. Required 20-30 minutes, but it was fairly easy to do, enjoyable, and I finished with virtually zero tearout. This caused me to lean away from purchasing a drum sander. It seems the previous back I tried just happened to be an unusually tough piece of wood with nasty, interlocked grain. And here we are…

Walnut is fairly common in my area, so it appeals to be able to potentially resaw my own backs or tops in the future. On the other hand, I could go with a cheaper 14" saw for ~$500 and use the other $500 to buy one or two more tools at Stewmac. Halfway kidding there. Haha.

Don had the very helpful idea to list out his current tools and I suppose it would be good for me to do likewise! At least it will hopefully create a better idea of where I fall on the spectrum. Anything Stewmac was purchased new (by working a 2nd job in the evenings!) but the rest was found cheaply over the past 6-8 years at Flea Markets used or on eBay/Craigslist. I tend toward hand tools, but when jobs become too frustrating or take too long I'll usually look into powered alternatives. Every sawing step is a LONG sewing step at the moment, hence looking at band saws. There are always more tools to buy, but I think even if I pass on this Laguna I would still like to get capable bandsaw in the future with a decent sized table.

Custom built BIG, heavy bench. 2x4 laminated together for the top and 2x6 laminated together for the legs. About 8' wide and 24" deep. Homemade, cobbled together leg vise and tail vise.
Side bending iron
Stewmac Rosette Cutter Base (this tool is AWESOME!)
Stewmac fret sawing box and template
Stewmac Dragon Files large and small
Stewmac radius blocks
Stewmac Precision Router Base
Stewmac Thickness Caliper
Stewmac Nut file set
Stewmac String Hole Saws
Stewmac Dremel Binding Guide
Dremel
Homemade go bar deck and radius dishes for the top/back
Homemade dreadnought body shape template
Japanese Pull Cut Saw
Lie Nielsen 62 Hand Plane
Misc Stanley Bailey Planes (20 1/2 compass plane, #5 with custom "toothed" blade, #5 with custom cambered blade, #2, #3, #4 1/2, #7, #55, #278 rabbett plane, couple others)
Big, old, heavy delta Drill Press
Cheap marking gauge

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Mark Dillon \\ Dillon Instruments :::====( o || )

Well I'll throw in yet another opinion

You do need a band saw, it's the most useful tool in my shop and I have found ways to use it for just about everything. It's just a Craftsman saw going on 20 years old now. I thought it was expensive when I got it, I think $500 bucks. It's a 12in saw with a 1hp motor which is actually pretty nice for a smaller saw.

But it has served me very well and I use it every day.

Having said that, later on in my 'career' I got a dedicated resaw. It's a monster of a saw that I would not even want inside my shop. I keep it out side in a breezway garage and when I want to use it everything gets opened up and the fans blow the dust out side. It's a wonderful thing to have, a resaw, and it can in the long run save you money.

So.... I would agree with those who say put your money into something like a drum sander. Unless you love thicknessing by hand, and that is a very valuable skill to learn, a drum sander is a very accurate time saver. I got one after 20 years building guitars and coulda kicked myself for not getting it earlier. There are still plenty of good smaller band saws on the market or in used places like Craig's List and so on.

Of course that's a hard deal to pass on such a nice saw too.

I've never regretted buying any of the power tools I have, including the resaw. If you can afford it and have room for it buy it (assuming it's in good shape).

Stop kvetching an buy it. As others mentioned bigger is better, They are extremely useful in a shop . way more than a TS which is good for carpentry and cabinetwork.. Being frugal , I would negotiate the price downwards. I have the clone of the rikon 10in made by craftsman and an older ryobi 9 in BS these are great for small resawing operations and a great addition to a luthiers shop. If your goal is just to be a hobbyist , you could get by easily with a 14 in BS and a smaller 10 in one , Good luck. PS I have a laguna 20 in with a 5 hp motor , excellent for resawing which replaced a mini max 18in bs that still gets a lot of use after 25 yrs.

That's a $3995.00 5 HP 18" band saw for $975? I would buy that in a heart beat, unless it's junk and that low price makes me think it might be just that, otherwise it's a steal and you will not regret having a large, powerful band saw.

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Thank You and Best To All

Don't think twice. BUY!

I’m honestly surprised by the number of folks telling you to buy it. You don’t even own a router??!!

There are so many more tools you NEED to start building...

Anyway... good luck. And ya, I’d be pretty cautious of a $4000 tool on sale for $975
And if you buy it and find you need to drop another $1000 into it....?


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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

One thing I'll add is that putting large machines on wheels so that they can be moved around a small shop is a good idea in theory. In practice, I find it cumbersome.

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George :-)

Buy the saw. Anything that you can do on a table saw, you can do on a band saw. I use my Laguna 16HD interchangeably with my cabinet saw frequently. At that price it is a steal.

Bob

That is a steal at the price it is offered for. Be careful it isn't a "set-up" to rob you. Bring some wood to make test cuts to see that the saw is working properly. If you have a friend who is familiar with bandsaws, bring him along. Sometimes having a disinterested set of eyes can see things you might miss. But there are good deals out there and they sometimes come at the wrong time, which is why you are hearing different opinions, most of which don't concern the purchase as much as the timing of it. Personally I'm of the opinion that you "strike while the iron is hot". You may never see as good a deal on a tool that you won't need to upgrade in the future. I guess I don't mind putting the cart before the horse if I figure I'm going to need both in the near future.
I have several machines on wheels. They do allow heavy machines to be mobile, but any time you are moving a tall heavy (500+ lbs.) machine you need to use care.

I am, of course, not telling him to buy it, merely advising he buy it because that kind of deal will almost never come around again and a powerful band saw is a very useful tool, for so many tasks in a shop.

I too would be VERY cautious about buying it for only $975 as well as it sounds too good to be true, which as we know is a pretty good sign it is too good to be true.

Curious about the follow up on the saw, condition etc.

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Thank You and Best To All

One of my favorite phrases/stories I hear thrown around the lutherie community goes something like "I started building because I couldn't afford to buy the one I wanted... $40k+ later, I should've just bought the dang guitar". That being said, if lutherie is something you want to do, buy the best you can afford. Better tools & equipment make tasks easier and more enjoyable (heck sometimes even safer).

I've never regretted buying large tools. I hate trying to accomplish a task only to find out my tool/equipment is not large enough to complete what I need it to. Plus, the tools I've bought are used for more than just lutherie. So I take into consideration what else I may be making in the future and if the tool will be able to handle it.

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I own an LT18, 3 hp model. It is a very good band saw. I bought mine used for $2500 CDN (about $1900 USD) with a bunch of carbide blades included. Carbide blade run about 100-150 for this saw. The table on mine was not flat, and I decided to replace it, which cost another $300. This is a big saw - which is great for resawing, but a hassle if you want to switch back and forth between large blades and narrow blades. With a mobile base I can move it around pretty easily, but you need to take care to not tip it over.

Dust collection is another issue; a shop vac doesn't (probably won't) cut it for resawing operations, you will want a dust collector to connect to this large a saw. I have a Delta 50-750, nameplate ~220 cfm, actual performance is 150 cfm and it does a good job keeping the lower wheel housing clean.

If you intend to continue woodworking as a hobby then the saw is a pretty good deal and quite a useful tool. For guitar building I used the LT18 to cut the headstock scarf joint, to trim the neck blank, and to cut a bunch of the rosette pieces. For furniture work I mostly use it for resawing to get bookmatched panels, for making veneer, for tapering leg blanks, and I've used it to make large corbels for a log-home fireplace mantle (12" x 18" solid fir corbels).

I've never regretted buying this saw (even though Laguna was a hassle to deal with when trying to buy a replacement table). It can replace a table-saw for most operations, but does not do as good a job as a tablesaw in cutting parallel edges and has limited throat. Adjusting the blade to get perfect cuts is much more finiky than a tablesaw.

Well, I didn't get mugged or robbed!

I'm a big believer that there are 2 kinds of experiences in life: good experiences and learning experiences. Today proved to be the latter.

If you want the abridged version see the bottom, but ya'll have been really kind and thorough with your guidance and I figure one or two might enjoy hearing the boring, drawn out story. It's also therapeutic to share.

I knew beforehand the gentleman selling the saw was quite elderly and “technologically challenged”. The only thing I had to go on prior to showing up was his description of the saw: “LAGUNA LT18 BANDSAW, GREAT CONDITION, NO ISSUES, MUST SELL, MOVING SOON” And yes, it was written in all caps.

No pictures, no other info other than that text and his description over the phone (he claimed it weighed 500lbs, reaffirmed the condition of the saw, Laguna model LT18, 220V, etc).

Saw a few caution flags immediately when I pulled up. No big “Laguna” branding at all was the first surprise. Had “ACM Model #LT18” listed on the plate on the side. Table size was smaller. Motor was smaller (but still a more than adequate 3HP). Overall, the saw just struck me as a fair bit smaller than I was expecting, but still very solid. He turned it on, tested it, and showed me all the adjustments and all seemed well. I asked him again if it had any issues at all and he repeatedly said there weren't. Asked about the saw's background, etc. It was in pretty decent shape overall. Bumps and nicks, but nothing obvious.

Another surprise were the older looking, cheaper ceramic guides. Prior to seeing the saw, those fancy pants Laguna guides are one of the main things I was looking forward to. No geared table either like on the newer LT18—not a real problem for an amateur like me, obviously, but taken as a whole these things were adding up.

I asked if he was firm on the price and he said he was. Actually told him I would take it and we loaded it into my van. This was the next surprise. I was told it was a 500lb saw. Although I'm no expert at judging weight, if a skinny white guy and an 80 something year old retired guy were able to load it without much effort I have a hard time believing it was anywhere near 500lbs. Either that, or those 3.5 pushups I've been doing per day have really been paying dividends. In truth, I'm guessing it was 250-300lbs.

It wasn't until we actually loaded it into the back of my van I noticed the biggest red flag: a large crack at the back side of the table. Saw must have been dropped at some point in its life and the crack ran all the way up one side, nearly expanding to the top surface. After I pointed it out he started apologizing profusely and said he never noticed it. I can believe it as the crack was on the rear side of the table.

Honestly, seeing that crack sucked the wind right out of me. I wasn't entirely sure what to do. He offered to knock $75 off the price. Asked him if I could have a bit of time to consider it. Hopped in my van, called Laguna directly, gave them all the info I had on hand. They couldn't find the exact serial number I gave them but they quoted a price of $768 for a table they thought might work. Not exactly encouraging.

I sat there weighing things out for a good 10-15 minutes, but eventually landed on this: bottom line is I've never paid anywhere close to 1K for a single tool. Based on the info I had at the time I could buy the saw and get the table replaced for a grand total of around $1600 with a couple big caveats. First, I wasn't even sure if the table Laguna quoted would work. Second, I wasn't even 100% sure the saw was made by Laguna in the first place. I wasn’t comfortable bringing this saw home.

Even if the saw operated just fine as is, I knew if I bought it and didn’t replace the table one single fact would always be in the forefront of my mind: the most expensive tool in my entire shop has a major piece that is broken. Also, if I ever tried to resell it in the future I have to believe this kind of damage would cause a significant drop in value.

I said thanks but no thanks and went on my way. He apologized some more, we shook hands, and then parted ways.

Some may call me an idiot for passing on it, and I'm ok with that! With the info I had at the time (over $700 to replace the table!?!) and the fact that this is a lot more than I have ever spent on a tool, I’m content with my decision at this point.

That being said, it was a gut punch of a day—from very cautiously optimistic this morning to being let down with a 3 hour drive home and an empty van. As for what was learned: I should have insisted on some kind of photo and should have asked a few more questions beforehand. Should have, should have, should have…

I still have my $975 though [minus ~$60 in gas money] and I'm sure something else will come along. Trying to do what I can to find a silver lining! Haha.

Bottom line for me personally: if I'm going to spend 1K on a tool I want all the major parts and pieces to be functionally like new. I don't care if it's pretty, just that it's not broken. 1K likely isn't that much money to some, but for a dad with young kiddos, a wife, and one household income it is reality.

If you made it all the way to the end of the long story you should get a gold star.

Thank you again for all of your kind advice and rock solid guidance. Sorry it didn’t work out this time, but who knows what’s around the corner! Always more tools to buy, right?

Short'ish version: Saw didn't have “Laguna” anywhere on it. It did have the name “ACM Model LT18” and otherwise looked similar to an older Laguna. The nameplate said “Model LT18”, but it had much cheaper looking guides, a smaller table than the Laguna, and…a big crack on the back side of the table. The saw had obviously been dropped at some point and it cracked the table all the way up the side (nearly into the top). Guy apologized and said he never noticed the crack. Called Laguna and they gave me a price of $768 to buy a new table for it. Guy offered to take $75 off the price for taking it as is. I said thanks but no thanks and went on my way empty handed. With the info I had at the time (over $700 to replace the table!?!) and the fact that this is a lot more than I have ever spent on a tool, I'm glad I passed. Bummed out, sure. But ok with my decision at least.

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Mark Dillon \\ Dillon Instruments :::====( o || )

ACM is the Italian company who made bandsaws for Laguna. Some were sold under their nameplate, some under Laguna and some under other names. The smaller motor might account for some of the weight difference, but you might not have noticed the weight if you loaded it by tipping it on to it's side into the van and then lifting and sliding it in. I have a sheet of plywood framed in 2X4's that slides out of the back of my pick up. By extending it out the back and lowering one end to the ground a fat out of shape 60 something (me) and 40 something year old loaded a 750 lb cast iron framed bandsaw into the pickup by lifting one end and sliding the plywood back in.
The cracked table could probably have been welded and resurfaced, but at some point if things don't feel right you should walk away. You wanted to buy a tool not a repair project. The silver lining is that most of the silver is still in your pocket and you are a little "richer" in the knowledge of what to look for when buying used machinery.

I think you made the right choice, given the cost and time involved in getting that saw back in shape. And I was in the camp of thinking you would be better off with something smaller anyway. Sorry you had a wasted day. Better hunting in the future.