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"First, the wider cutting iron of a hand plane. Looks like the carbide inserts for the shelix heads are a little over .5" wide. That is a far smaller edge pushing pushing through the wood at one time versus the 2" wide plane iron. In my mind, the the wider the shaving the more difficult it is going to be for the wood fibers to fight against the tearout of their “next door neighbors”. "

When using a hand plane you can turn the body 45 degrees to the direction you are pushing it and create a "shearing cut" which effectively reduces the width of the area being cut which might help with your tearout problem.

Thanks for the tip, Clay! I recall attempting different angles and directions but there is a good possibility I simply didn’t try go far enough with the angle. I'll give it a shot again and test.

As for drum sander options I found this model on Craigslist within a few hour drive: https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzl ... eed/G0458Z

As well as this one: https://woodworker.com/22-44-plus-drum- ... 37-288.asp

The Grizzly is listed for $500 and the Performax is listed for $800. Does anyone here have experience with either of these models? Yes, no, offer lower, etc? Thank you all again.

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Mark Dillon \\ Dillon Instruments :::====( o || )

The Jet is far superior in quality. I wouldn’t spend money on the Grizzly.

Same as Don. a 22-44, you'll be able to pass backs/tops through on one pass with that. I have a performax 16-32. It works great. Take the time to set it up well and it will be a pleasure to use. Dust collection is key to keep the belt cool and not as prone to clogging.

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I made an edit to my post with the Koa pics and YouTube link but I'll reiterate.

I typically don't put expensive and/or high figure woods like that Koa through the planer because sometimes it does tear out. The point I was trying to make is that if the Shelix can handle very difficult woods like that Koa, it can handle straight grain woods without any issues. It also handles rowed woods or woods where the grain reverses directions like ribbon stripe Sapele well. If you are considering a Shelix head planer and you aren't going to work with expensive and/or highly figured woods, I feel the Shelix is a realistic option.


Kevin Looker

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I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

Mark—

Two more cautions, assuming you are thinking about buying the Jet 22-44:

1. Extra drum size is better, and I will never go back to a drum sander that is narrower than my joined tops and backs, but the larger drum sanders do take up more floor space than you think, particularly if you use the stock legs. No worries if you have the floor space, but just be mindful of the space requirement, including infeed and outfeed space, and walking space to safely get from one to the other for each pass.

2. There is nothing optional about dust collection when you run a drum sander. And while some folks get by with a shop vac, I think that shop vacs are undersized for this job. This is where buying from Grizzly, or Harbor Freight, will be good enough for getting on with. Personally, I go larger with a Clear Vue cyclone, and I worry about the health effects for folks who don’t take dust collection more seriously. But even the most “why bother” folks have to use some sort of dust collection when running a drum sander. Run it one time, outdoors, without dust collection and you will see why.

Since I work mostly with hand tools in the shop and don't have dust collection besides a shop-vac, I keep the surface planer and surface sander in the garage and use them outdoors only. Minor hassle to wheel either one out front and have at.

In the picture of the helical head on the first page, notice how the rows of cutters form a spiral - this approximates a skew cut much like you would do with a hand plane by either angling the plane and making a straight cut, or not angling the plane and making a slightly angled cut.

And since most guitars (all of mine) are 16" or less, a 16-32 drum sander would work fine for less money and less real estate.

Ed

A 22 -44 would be a nice size to have (I get by with a 16/32)and if you put it on casters can be wheeled into the odd corner when not in use. They are not particularly heavy so between the Grizzly or the Jet, the jet would be my choice, especially if you do other types of wood working (cabinet, doors, etc) There is definitely a quality gap (quality control) between Jet and Grizzly.

Mark, I have the 22-44 ur looking at. It’s a beast. And if that used price is really 800$, get it. I do have to disagree with someone here... it’s VERY heavy. And that stand? I have it. Once I added the casters, the frame became unstable. I had to reinforce with angle iron. It’s the same stand they sell for the 16-32. Just letting u know u might have to strengthen it. Basically, I ran angle iron around bottom below the storage shelf. Anybody else run into this?

Hi Mike,
The weight of the 22-44 (280lbs) is not that heavy compared to the weight of a 20 inch planer (1000 lbs) or a powermatic table saw (600 lbs) and can be pushed around on casters relatively easily. It's not something I would want to pick up and carry, but the additional weight compared to the Grizzly (235lbs) would affect my buying decision.
Did you mount the casters on the stand or did you put the stand on a mobile base?

Personally, if I owned a 22-44, I would probably want to build a box-shaped rolling storage cabinet and put the sander on top of it, ditching the metal stand it came with. Those metal stands are designed with the legs splayed out, and that's how they obtain the needed stability and weight capacity. I would rather get that stability from the strength of a box on wheels that I can put things in. Just my own preference.

Called the gentleman on the 22-44 sander and he said there was a guy who lived closer already coming over to look at it. Called me back a bit later and said the guy ended up buying it. Sometimes it’s a bummer living so far away from a large city! Would have been a 4 ish hour drive for me. The hunt is still on though!

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Mark Dillon \\ Dillon Instruments :::====( o || )

"but the additional weight compared to the Grizzly (235lbs) would affect my buying decision."

but the additional weight compared to the Grizzly (235lbs) would - NOT- affect my buying decision.

Is what I meant to right.

Oops bad post

I installed a Shelix cutter head in my old Inca 510 planer.

The only figured wood I have tried so far is quilted western maple.

Some of the quilting showed a fuzzy appearance and would require further sanding. Not tear out, and certainly no chunks blown out, but not quite the surface quality we're all looking for. Good, but not perfect.

So from my limited experience so far, I would not try to plane figured wood to final thickness with the Shelix. I have not done any measurements yet to see how close to final thickness I can take it.

Other figured woods may react differently, and other Shelix-equipped planers may perform differently.

Having said all that, I am super pleased with the Shelix retrofit. For those who may not be familiar with the Inca 510, it is a VERY vexing task to get the original straight knives set perfectly. I don't have to go through that ever again, and performance in general woodworking is excellent.

Ok, I want a shelix for my DJ6 Jointer and my DW 735 planer. And, I might consider thinning a bit with the planer. Maybe. I really have no need however. I bought this 30 grit paper from Klingspor that literally thins any kind of board in minutes. U have to know when to stop and switch over to 80 grit or u wont get deep scratches out. Paper hardly wears out. Its beast. And it WONT clog on oily woods.

I think your point is a good one, Mike: Drum sanders are slower than planers, but that's at least in part because we use 80 grit paper or higher. If we go down to "paint removal" grit sandpaper, and otherwise have enough oomph behind the sanding operation (i.e., a good motor that won't bog down), the speed difference between planers and sanders is significantly narrowed. And the drum sander always wins the "won't turn your wood into splinters" contest.

Yeah Don. The turning point for me was the 30 grit paper. It will thin a board as fast as a planer, without the risk. But u need a little horse power. Id think anything 16/32 and up would be fine. Of course, unlike a planer, it leaves marks, you gotta know when to stop and switch grits

I do not believe u could use this paper on the 10/20 sander. That motor has enough issues already unless u use really small passes.

I think I’d be inclined to try 30 grit on one side only... then switch to 80 grit to remove the 30 grit and do the other side.


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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Rod, that's not a bad idea. And in practice, that's what I do. Once both sides are leveled under 30, I spend more time on the inside. Still, u have to work out the gouges with 80

The motor running my Performax ShopPro 25 is pretty powerful. I think I will get me some of that 30 grit and see what happens.

I recently bought some 120, because the scratches from even the 80 grit can be pretty deep. I've read that, in order to get drum sander scratches out, you can go to a coarser grit with a ROS, then move up the grits from there. So, I was planning to do my last passes on the drum sander with 120, then use 80 on the ROS when it comes time for final sanding before finishing; then move up the grits from 80 using the ROS and by hand.

I seem to spend a lot of time sanding . . .

That's cool. I lusted after one of those Inca's in the early 90's when they were over $2,500. I just saw one on my local Craigslist for $600 and had to pause for a minute.

Yes, the Koa I did in the video had the fuzzy's on the tops of the curls and additional sanding would be required for glossy guitar quality finishing.

As I've said, if you're not working figured woods or expensive woods like BRW, it think a Shelix is a reasonable option.

Kevin Looker

_________________
I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

Don, If u think 80 gouges are bad, wait till 30. It’s all a trade off. 80 simply wont work well on oily wood. So, I take mine down to .12, then finish off with 80 knowing I’m gonna have to clean with easy off. But it’s better than the trying to go it all with 80. I have yet to find a use for 120. Tried it. Works ok on dry wood. Useless on anything with oil.

Mike--

I hear you. My concern with the scratches from the 80 are mainly about spruce. I seem to work harder by hand than I want to in order to get those 80 grit scratches out of spruce. I have fewer problems with scratches in hardwood. We'll see if the 120 helps. I haven't had a chance to experiment with it yet.

I would never use 30 on spruce. 80 good. This is about hardwood.