Official Luthiers Forum!

Here is a Fine Woodworking article that just came out on RO sanders. A surprise cheapie in there

https://www.finewoodworking.com/membership/pdf/260362/011272043w.pdf

Ed

ED any company that takes in ads from its advertisers . e. g FWW. and the companies that make these sanders that advertise in their magazine are suspect ??? I have 10 ro sanders, and the festool . is good but but I would take these results with a large dose of skepticism

They left out my Makita.
It works like a dream. They are available in home improvement stores, so the omission puzzled me.

_________________
wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah

All of the wood magazine product reviews are a joke -- they are advertising, so be extremely skeptical. The best reviews are on Amazon (make sure the user wasn't supplied with the item for a review as those are also biased).

Having made furniture for a living for over 30 years, I've gone through a lot of R.O. sanders. The one that has outlasted all the others is a Milwaukee.

I switched to Mirka sanders and Abranet about 5 years ago. A very good move. Even if you don't want to spend hundreds on a good sander, switching to Abranet is one of the best things you can do for your health.

_________________
nigel

http://www.theluthierblog.com

Gotta agree with NK, I like the way Abranet performs. I do my sanding on a pretty powerful downdraft table so hadn't considered any health advantage. After 40 years and I don't even remember how many RO sanders, I'm using a Mirka and a Festool in the shop. I like the Festool best, it removes material fast and leaves the best finish with no swirl marks. I do still have an 19 year old Makita I keep up in the garage with 80 grit on it for rough carpentry.

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I wish reviews reflected real-world use of tools, versus the sort of faux 'evaluation' scenarios that fail to really stress any element of the systems examined. To that point, the drive system and abrasive can be top notch, but with the wrong pad or vac pickup system, outcomes can require a lot of cleanup. Re: pads, most sanders seem to come stock with a medium density pad with fairly flexible edges, which is a reasonable choice for sanding a desk top, but almost guarantees issues on mixed materials such as shell, fiber/wood purfling, and spruce. I'd suggest a look at the availability of medium firm or firm pads for any sander contemplated, and retrofit with a firm pad if working in different densities of materials.

While we always start out with a card scraper to knock off the majority of the high stuff, we use Festool ETS 125 EQ & REQ and Dynabrade 5" and 6" central vacuum pickup, rear exhaust random orbit sanders, with Festool Granite and Abranet abrasives for most sanding on the flat. On the run of 42 Style guitars, the 5" Dynabrade/Abranet combination was perfect for leveling the combination of shell, fiber and wood purfs, ivoroid binding and rosette trim elements, ebony extension borders, and red spruce (shot below was directly off the P180 Abranet pass with standard dust pickup).



Both Festool and Dynabrade offer various pad options, and Dynabrade offers a wider range of nearly every option (dust pickup, orbit size (we use 3/32" for most guitar work, but have a 3/16" for fast stock removal on other projects like leveling composites), and exhaust location. The downside to the Dynabrade is the need for some serious compressor support...the Quincy we have is wonderful, but we did find a used Ingersol in very nice shape for a lot less, but passed on the conversion to single phase.

_________________
For the times they are a changin'

- Bob Dylan

Woodie that is one very well executed purfling /binding /rosette scheme !!!!

Thanks, but all I see are the two miter joints that I could have improved, and the one piece of shell that has some taper in it that I missed! Was nice that - after the dry fit inspection - they used my work on this guitar, and let me snap in the shell. Debating whether I want to use this style on my 0 sized 12 fret...it is a lot of bling, but was so much fun doing the work.

The shot really highlights just how flat and scratch-free the surface of the spruce and shell was using what is a fairly coarse (P180) grit of Abranet. Messrs. Forster and Smith have the right of it - Abranet is a very versatile abrasive for what we instrument builders do with random orbit sanders.

_________________
For the times they are a changin'

- Bob Dylan

Last year I talked myself into spending the money to get a Festool sander/dust extractor system. It works as advertised. I wish I had taken the plunge years ago.

Appreciate the info above on on pads and abrasives.

_________________
George :-)

I've used quite a few different R.O. sanders over the years. The electric ones I think of as "expendable tooling" because they all seem to die eventually. The things I look for in one is that it is easy to hold, doesn't transfer too much vibration to my hand, and is not too loud . Many of the air sanders have warnings on them indicating that prolonged use can cause hand and wrist problems.

Mirka 6” for me. I can sand for hours without arm/hand fatigue. I have one of the Festool RO’ that we’re on sale a couple of years ago, but haven’t used it much.

Alex

_________________
"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

Woodie, Ever since I could afford Dynabrades, I've kept 4 of the 5"ers on 4 lines to avoid having to switch with the progressive grits I use. I've used nothing else for the last 30 years or so. I use Mirka Bulldog Gold abrasives. Can you explain the use of Abranet to me? Grits, and when or if you transition to other types of abrasive.Also, how about RO sanding on nitro with Abranet or Abralon. Thanks, Bob

_________________
“ The meaning of life is to find your gift and the purpose of life is to give it away” Pablo Picasso

It's a net/mesh abrasive that comes in discs, strips, and rolls. One side is velcro like so sticks to most sanders, the great thing about it is dust gets sucked straight through it. It lasts pretty well, and it is a very even abraisive. I like how it cuts and bits don't come off and get dragged around by the sander. The finish it gives is very very good.

There is some difference between US grits and European ones I think, You'd have to look that up. I use 120, 180, 240 and 320 grits. I buy 50
x 125mm discs of each at a time. Ebay tends to be the place to find the best prices.

Abranet comes in a variety of qualities and with different names. I've never really quite got to the bottom of it all. - the basic stuff (Abranet ) is also sold as Autonet - which is a little cheaper. There is also a better grade called Abranet gold. (I think) It's quite a bit more expensive. There are a number of hand sanding pads you can use it with too, that again hook up to your shopvac, They're excellent. Again, not sure if they are available in the US, but take a look -

https://www.tradecounteronline.co.uk/mi ... -grip-40h/

The convex block is superb for getting into the waist. Worth shipping over from the UK if you can't get it where you are. You'd need the hose too -

https://www.tradecounteronline.co.uk/mi ... arter-kit/

Some sellers sell it by itself. I've seen them all on eBay too, and a couple of decent looking knock-offs.

_________________
nigel

http://www.theluthierblog.com

We sand both well-dried nitro and Enduro-Var with Abranet, although only on the flat surfaces of the top, back, and peghead. The dust pickup through the mesh does a decent job of minimizing pilling of the dust on the surface of the disk, and any finish that does pill is a bit easier to knock off with compressed air than on the standard Festool Granat disks. I just put an order in for some Granat Net disks, and we will be trialing those against the Mirka product.

_________________
For the times they are a changin'

- Bob Dylan

Thanks for the reply Nigel and Woodie. Let's say I have a nitro finish, cured for 1 month. To level and get ready for the buffer, what grit of Abranet would you start with and what kind of abrasive progression before it is ready to buff. I know it depends on the amount of orange peel etc., but assume the finish is pretty good to start with. In the early stages, I dry sand with Mirka 320 Gold a lot, but only by hand and thats a bit of work. Towards the end, I'm doing a lot of wet sanding up to 1200 grit and sometimes higher, again by hand. If I could reduce the sanding time by RO sanding, that would be great. Thanks, Bob

_________________
“ The meaning of life is to find your gift and the purpose of life is to give it away” Pablo Picasso

I've had pretty good luck with Abranet on a Bosch RO sander with dust collection on lacquer, 400 thru 1000. I've then used Micromesh 5" pads 1500 to 12000 on the RO. Then fine and extra fine buffing with HF foam pads. My amateur attempts are coming out pretty shiney.

P400 on nitro at low speed and P320 for waterbased at low/med speed.

_________________
For the times they are a changin'

- Bob Dylan

Woodie- Abranet 400 and that's it? From there to the buffer does not seem possible. Must be more to it.--Bob

_________________
“ The meaning of life is to find your gift and the purpose of life is to give it away” Pablo Picasso

Thanks for the input. Sorry to see this thread die. I'm still interested in whether Abranet can be used during the nitro application process or only on cured lacquer, and whether anyone is doing power sanding with anything during the application schedule.

_________________
“ The meaning of life is to find your gift and the purpose of life is to give it away” Pablo Picasso

I use Super Asilex for between coats and leveling Nitro. I use both RO Sander and hand sanding. I start with their Sky K-600 then Lemon K-800, Orange K-1200 and Peach K-1500 and then off to the buffer.

You have to very careful with power sanding. Super Asilex cuts much quicker than most.

_________________
Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

Joe- Thanks for the info. So is that abrasive used wet on nitro? When using it during the nitro application process, is there any other kind of sanding before you start with the 600? Seems like that is a pretty fine grit, but maybe it sands fast. Thanks, Bob

_________________
“ The meaning of life is to find your gift and the purpose of life is to give it away” Pablo Picasso

I'm sorry - I appear to have missed the query re: sanding finishes beyond 400 or so grit. We use Abranet to do the leveling work, but switch to P400/P800/1200 3M Imperial used wet to complete the prep for buffing on nitro, and dry sand 400 and 800 for prep on Enduro-Var. Although we could wet sand with the Dynabrades, and - with a softer, smaller diameter conformal pad - sand the sides, we hand sand and get good results.

_________________
For the times they are a changin'

- Bob Dylan

I don't really have a firm grip on the meaning of sand paper grit numbers, but on the Super Assilex site they say their K-600 has a sanding speed equivalent of P320, and a finish equivalent of P800.

It does cut like P320 but produces a finish as smooth and scratch free as P800. I use it dry. It doesn't load up.

I have used Abranet both wet and dry and like it, but for nitro I like Assilex

_________________
Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust