Official Luthiers Forum!

Wow, thanks for the great report! So 100% of the sanding dust is trapped in the Dust Deputy bucket and 0% makes it to the vac? That would be impressive!

You'd still want to have some HEPA filtering going on somewhere as the stuff you can't see is the bad stuff.

_________________
Pat

One more question. If I bought the best ROS I can, say $2-300.00 range, how difficult would it be to accomplish the same thing? Less power requirements and space. Can you actually remove 25 or 30 mils evenly?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

_________________
Hutch

Get the heck off the couch and go build a guitar!!!!

I think it would be really hard to thickness plates to a consistent thickness using a random orbital sander. But consider using either a safety planer or a sanding disk in a drill press. The depth stop feature of a decent drill press can make this task feasible. I think I mentioned earlier that a 17” or larger drill press would be needed.

Why 17"? It's only 7 or 8 inches to the middle of a plate.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

_________________
Hutch

Get the heck off the couch and go build a guitar!!!!

Drill press sizes are called by their diameter of cut.

_________________
Pat

Ah ha. I thought it was clearance.

So you have thicknessed top and backs this way? I'm finding this very intriguing. A large drill press would be a much more useful tool I think. It could even be used as a drum sander for sides and bindings.

_________________
Hutch

Get the heck off the couch and go build a guitar!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l98KobHZ0rk

also

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfaLmBGKjJY

_________________
Insta - https://www.instagram.com/cbcguitars/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/cbcguitars

Be cautious of the friend helping Robbie in the second video. That dude is constantly making mistakes in the shop!

_________________
Insta - https://www.instagram.com/cbcguitars/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/cbcguitars

I've tried several of these methods.

Using the ROS I found it almost impossible to get an even thickness; very time consuming as I had to constantly measure thickness across the plate.

The safety planer worked although you need some kind of hold down to be sure the work doesn't creep up into the planer which can result in thin spots (I was still able to build with it though).

I had pretty good luck using a plane. I found that it needs to be very sharp and if you try to take too deep a cut you can easily pull chunks out of figured wood. Cutting at an angle to the grain works better. Still requires a lot of measuring. Back then my plane skills were not what they are now. Now I use planes a lot more but am just not interested in the grunt labor needed to thickness plates with them.

All in all I've found the investment in the Jet 10-20 and good dust collection to be well worth it.

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

If I can find a used one for 2 or 300 dollars I may still pick one up. Lots of good advice here and I'm considering everything. I like the idea that the benchtop model can be put away when not in use. I have a friend who bought a Ryobi 10-20 for 175 dollars. He loves it. I'm going to wait for a deal and in the meantime get a good DP and safety planer.

_________________
Hutch

Get the heck off the couch and go build a guitar!!!!

That makes sense. One of the reasons I tried what I did is that I didn't have the money to drop for a drum sander but I still needed to get the plates thicknessed. I just used what I had that seemed like it would work - and the guitars did get built.

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

If you are thinking about the 10-20 being portable enough to just pick it up and put it on your bench when needed, you might want to take a look at the manual to get the actual weight. When I owned one, it was pretty heavy (to me, anyway).

On planing the work: If you want to use hand planes on figured wood, consider buying (or making) toothed irons in addition to the regular irons. Toothed irons can help avoid problems with figured wood. If you read the Cumpiano/Natelson book, it has a section on using toothed irons as part of the plate thicknessing process.

For hardwoods, the safety planer (combined with a decent drill press) can work pretty well. For tops, I would use sanding disks. I do think there are folks who thickness their tops this way. I think that goes better if you set the disk a bit higher than the work, then use the depth stop on the drill press and lower the disk to the work, leaving the work stationary while sanding, then moving the work around between plunges. The safety planer works the other way: Set the planer and table to a specific thickness, then move the work under the planer. I'm just going by some things I have seen. I'm a large drum sander owner/user, and would rather do this job that way. But, I don't have the same workspace restrictions you are dealing with.

Just to throw another option into the mix, I have this King 110v 16" closed end single drum sander that does the trick for me:

I just made a deal on a Jet 10-20 for $400. Leaves money for a nice drill press I just found as well.

_________________
Hutch

Get the heck off the couch and go build a guitar!!!!

I know it’s been mentioned, and I’ll throw in my experience with dust collection. Basically, Jet 16/32 run with a Shop Vac, initially. Now I run proper dust collection through a shop cyclone, which you won’t have room for (previously used a Jet 3hp dust collector, till the motor burned).

First thing already mentioned, health. Nuff said.

One thing not mentioned is performance. There’s a reason the 16/32 has a 4” dust collection opening. My tops and backs are 9” wide, and they burned with a shop vac. I thought the drum sander sucked; it doesn’t.

It’s easy to find opposing sides of dust collection, vacuum pressure (shop vac) or high volume cfm (dust collectors). Note: just read the manual for the 10/20, and it has a 4” dust collector port.

VERY VERY little goes to the vac:/ there’s a hepa in the vac


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I know that getting started and having workspace restrictions, etc., can be frustrating and expensive. That's why I've been recommending some alternative ways of thicknessing plates. Good luck, and I hope it works out that you can have the tools that make all of this easier.

A broader comment: If you can get there, there is something freeing about having all the tools needed to take wood in rough form and turn it into precisely sized parts, without it taking all day and/or a huge amount of effort. Equipped with a bandsaw, table saw, drill press, router table and drum sander, I can take all sorts of wood and dimension it with hardly any effort at all. If I want to cut neck blanks from billets of mahogany, or cut binding strips, or kerfed linings, or fingerboards, or even create my own purfling, I have the tools needed for those jobs. Except for making the purfling from scratch, none of those jobs is all that hard, but it would be extremely labor intensive if I didn't have the tools I mention. Add in a track saw for cutting sheet goods and I can make all of the cabinets, jigs and workboards I need, too. That level of self sufficiency is pretty gratifying, and it makes my guitar making experience that much better.

I'm questioning the small drum sander idea. Not sure if it will be satisfying.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

_________________
Hutch

Get the heck off the couch and go build a guitar!!!!

The only thing NOT satisfying about my drum sander is that it always leaves me wanting.

For our craft, it’s a workhorse for me. And if mine ever died, I’d try to find a way to get one of these:
https://www.grizzly.com/products/15-Ope ... nder/G0819

If you can find a way to make it work, I’d say you should. This forum allows you to ask questions that aren’t necessarily clear in the sales brochure, but the manual will refer you to Jet dust collectors as part of the system.

"A broader comment: If you can get there, there is something freeing about having all the tools needed to take wood in rough form and turn it into precisely sized parts, without it taking all day and/or a huge amount of effort. Equipped with a bandsaw, table saw, drill press, router table and drum sander, I can take all sorts of wood and dimension it with hardly any effort at all. "

Not to be a BuzzKill, but you might want to complete a few instruments before you become too heavily invested. Even with all the labor saving devices there is still work involved and some of it is a bit tedious. With the right mind set woodworking is a fine hobby, but as the used tool market will show, it is not for everybody - some are upgrading but some are getting out.
Personally I would pass on a 10/20. It seems like most eventually upgrade to a bigger sander. But starting out I would get a good used #4 or #5 handplane (Stanley, Sargent, or Miller's Falls) and a PC ROS. You can thickness plates moderately well with these and a modicum of skill. And if you find after your 4th or 5th instrument that you aren't really into it, you can walk away without being having spent too much money.
Another reason to put off big purchases, is you may find your methods of work don't require the same tooling others use. As an example; I use a power jointer and a tablesaw, but many here get along without them. I use relatively cheap spray equipment, while others demand superior results "off the gun" and invest thousands in it. Some do resawing and require large bandsaws, while others buy the wood closer to dimension and get by with a tabletop unit. I like the versatility of a radial drill press while some might find it not rigid enough to do precise metal work. There are tools I have I would not buy if the only thing I did was instrument making, and there are tools I only have because I do instrument making. In hind sight there are tools I should have never bought and a very few I wish I had.

I do agree, for what it’s worth, w what Clay said. If you’re just starting I highly recommend doing some kit builds to keep your tooling down. You’ll still have a LOT of work to do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I think the problem with the “don’t spend a lot of money on tools until you know you will stick with it” way of thinking is that, if you try to build a guitar without such tools, it it a lot harder, and requires more refined hand tool skills. That can lead to frustration and quitting, too.

I don’t recommend that anyone go into crippling debt buying tools. This is a hobby; we should all spend within our boundaries for money spent on hobbies. The nice thing about the larger tools I mentioned above is that they have general utility in woodworking. You can build other things or sell the tools to other woodworkers if you tire of this particular hobby.

As far as the decisions to trade up (or laterally) on tools, I’m not sure there is any way to inoculate yourself against that. You have to try things to figure out if they work for you. Yes, like I said, don’t go broke buying tools; this is a hobby. But we all have to make a mixture of the right and the wrong (in retrospect) choices on the tools that work best for us. Who ever gets those decisions right 100% of the time?

I have had a pretty full shop at one time and loved it. I'm never going to stop building something til I'm dead. I'm not at all concerned and I have the money set aside for shiny new one. My only issue is upgrading the receptacles in the basement. I just need to speak to the landlord who is a friend about upgrading if it doesnt work out.

_________________
Hutch

Get the heck off the couch and go build a guitar!!!!

One more thing. I've built 3 F5 mandolins and a few necks for other instruments. I'm not a total beginner.

_________________
Hutch

Get the heck off the couch and go build a guitar!!!!

Too bad , you can/t test out the feasability of a useful tool like a thickness sander. Had I known what I was getting, never would have bought in in 1996. Hutch just buy the best tool for the job that you can afford. My problem with these small sanders is lack of power, I/m impatient. Changing sanding belts, and alignment. and fooling around with changing different grits on these small machines, which are IMHO strictly hobbyist. Another big sander , that gets good reviews is the General International 2 drum sander. I saw a used delta 18 in. a while back at a an estate of a deceased woodworker and they wanted $ 500 for it.