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Segmented claro walnut in the center. I typically cut burl rosettes out of one solid piece, but thought I would give this a try. What do you think? The top is sinker redwood. There are no wrong answers. Lol.


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Aaron Craig

TBH I dislike the asymmetry of the single shell line...

I like the wood ring and agree about the shell. Maybe just purf on both sides?


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While I agree with the concerns regarding the asymmetry as a stand-alone element, if you incorporate the look into the purfling, headstock, end graft, etc., it may well work perfectly fine, perhaps even wonderfully. In the end, it's totally up to you and that, for me, is the beauty of all this.

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George :-)

How about this? Better? Worse? Still asymmetrical, but the single Osage Orange .055 radial purfling will be carried out around the perimeter of the top and headstock.




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Aaron Craig

No offense, in my opinion, just another AGF "modern" rosette.

I don't mind the asymmetry. It's dissonant for sure, but if that is what you are after then that's a good thing

I'm not sure I know what Haans means by AGF modern but I think I can guess at it. I've done a few solid ring rosettes and never really liked any of them. They seem to have become 'a thing' 10 years ago or so. The radial ones at least look a bit more interesting and burls can be too. But for me personally I just like rings now unless it's a classical guitar then I go for traditional tiles.

But anyway like all things beauty, it really is in the eye of the beholder.

The ring seems like it would be a lovely back-drop for the shell, given the color and the uniformity of grain. Perhaps consider moving the shell to the center of the ring (see below...) and use a simpler black-white-black purfling at the periphery to set off the rosette.

Because our brains run poorly written, buggy, badly-documented software and a 300,000 year old, seldom-updated operating system, our eyes are easily fooled. Biasing the shell ring a few thousandths toward the soundhole may not be geometrically accurate, but will likely provide a little better visual balance. With the depth of color of the ring, a simple black-white purfling element of the same individual ply widths as the innermost element of the top edge purfling and the periphery of the ring might work well...the black ply might best be employed next to the shell.

Mr. James Olson uses a similar scheme on some instruments, and it always seems to me to be a nice mash-up of Mr. Brentrup's preferred traditional elements and the more modern approach exemplified by the flood of small jumbos seen on Acoustic Guitar Forum's builder's forum. While Mr. Olson's wooden ring is a radial element on the instruments I've seen in the shop, his website gallery shows other treatments as well.

There is also the issue of intent in design...as in, 'I think I like that treatment, but I'm not sure if he just ran out of shell or meant to do that.' If the viewer has to wonder whether the treatment is a consequence of supply chain issues versus the design process, some additional though might be in order. While I am not a great admirer of Mr. Somogyi's design language, he is a master at balancing the sort of variable symmetries your two designs seek to explore. There is never any question as to intent behind Mr. Somogyi's use of a design element, and that aids the viewer in 'getting' the larger picture.

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For the times they are a changin'

- Bob Dylan

None taken. But I think you’re a bit behind the times. This is apparently the current state of AGF “modern.”



FWIW, I like the classic look of a Martin-style three ring rosette, but I’m not interested in copying them.


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Aaron Craig

fwiw, believe it or not i had four years in fine art photography. good design has a "conclusion", it doesn't leave one guessing where it is. either someone "gets it" without explanation or they walk away.

as a stand-alone element that rosette leaves me asking where is the resolution? is this a mistake? what's going on here? perhaps you can offer closure with the rest of the design elements of the whole guitar so that it makes sense to the viewer and offers some level of completeness. something that ties everything together so that it makes sense.

(IMO)

Sheesh, anything to be different, I guess (regarding the AGF example, not yours, Aaron).

I agree with what's been said about symmetry. IMHO, using OO in the rosette to provide continuity with he purfling doesn't help the asymmetry issue. Something about a symmetrical rosette flows better visually; a symmetrical rosette would seem more "at rest."

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

The customer is King.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Rather than removing the abalone from the outer ring I would be inclined to add abalone to the inner ring (with the same BWB border as the outer ring). I think that would balance the design and provide a little bit of "bling" to an otherwise understated rosette. The "segments" in the upper part of the rosette seem to blend together, but that might just be the lighting and I don't think that's a big deal.
The original design would probably look O.K. to most people (doesn't look "bad" to me - I've done worse). What we are not seeing is the big black hole it goes around.

Clay, we are somewhat on the same wavelength. I switched it up once more. But the inner ring is OO. I think I like it.

Here’s a pic, though at the time I was more focused on documenting the damage done by the marginally sharp dental pick that impaled me (that wound goes through and through from the nail side out). I’ve had much worse, but still a nice reminder that even the simplest tools deserve respect. Lol.






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Aaron Craig

Ouch!
Been there, done that. I was once knocking loose 2X4's used to hold the spacing of some roof trusses and had one come back down and nail my finger through the finger nail to the truss with a 16 penny. Other than that just a few brad nailler strikes.

Rosette looks nice.

You Know.... If they put a nice looking pick guard on that AGF guitar it would cover up that blemish on the top........

My honest opinion: it doesn't matter. These sort of concentric ring rosettes have little artistic value. Just something to fill the space. As long as it's inoffensive, you're good

The client wanted more bling. So it’s:



Symmetry problems solved.

Thanks all for your thoughts. Nice to bounce ideas around.


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Aaron Craig

Making the overall design symmetrical with the two shell lines looks good to me and placing the radial purfling in the center backed by the darker wood makes it a focal point that I bet will look good in combination with that same purfling around the top.

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Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

Pretty busy, but I like it more than the others.
Seems to me that when "The customer is King", the builder is the peon. I've turned down quite a few orders in my lifetime as a builder because I didn't like where the "King" was going...
One in particular wanted a blond F5. I said no right away and then we talked for about an hour while he tried to convince me to build one to go along with 7 or 8 that other builders had built for him. I asked him what he was doing with all these blond mandolins. He said they were all in display cases. I asked him if he ever let anyone play them and he said no. I hung up...
So much for that King...

I like that one. The symmetry is pleasing. Personally, I see no need to make Mavin and Gilson clones. I like some flair and creativity. Otherwise, just buy a factory guitar...

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Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com

I like the clients choice the best also. Symmetry with the rings is pleasing to be, and the wood contrast is nice.

FWIW, I like the clients choice, looks fine.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Why can't I see the pictures?

Neither can I.

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I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

I can't see the images either but if it's for a customer then yeah they get what they want.