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So any help is appreciated with this.
For my next build I want to do something fairly traditional and as non-guessy as I can. I think what I would like to do is a 1930 style Martin 000. I have these plans and molds already, but haven’t made one from scratch yet.

From what I’ve been able to find it is a snowflake board w a classic gold torch up top.

I would probably cheat on the abalone purfling and use zip flex. I realize this may be a cardinal sin.

The outer and inner rings on the rosette as well as the abalone framing...I’ve not been able to find a clear enough picture to determine what they are.. is it bwb?

Also. I’ve noticed the bridge isn’t a pyramid bridge as I expected (not sure why I thought it would be).

Are there any good resources I should be aware of for this guitar ?
I plan on spending the next week researching and listening to different examples of it. Fat chance of finding one to touch but I wish I could.

I know I may be showing my ignorance with these questions, but I’d rather show ignorance now than show it 20’years from now after it has festered.
Thanks guys.
B






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The 1930's triple O was made in a number of different woods and trim selections which was reflected in the "Style" number (18, 21, 28, etc.) it was given. Many of the "styles" are no longer produced and as time went on some of the materials were changed (mahogany replaced rosewood, simple BWB replaced herringbone purflings, etc) on some of the styles.
So if you want to build a "period correct" copy you will need to research which styles triple Os were made in that year, pick a style and try to find the materials needed to build it.

Clay thank you for this clarification.


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What Clay said. The problem with triple oughts is that there are many permutations - 12 and 14 frets clear, scale length, nut width, headstock (slotted or paddle), bridges, and of course bracing. As Clay points out, they came in many different woods and appointments - some of these have changed radically (the wonderful 000-17 was an all mahogany guitar in 1930, today it is spruce topped with A frame bracing)

My first home made guitar was a sitka over rosewood 000 based loosely on the 000-28EC but with a bit more bling. It is long scale, 12 fret and I scalloped the hell out of the bracing. Even after 12 years and 22 other guitars it remains my favorite.

I also have built a 00-17 (slightly smaller body than a triple) and all mahogany. It is my tribute to the simple inexpensive Depression era guitar - you could certainly build this in the larger size. There is one last guitar in this picture, it is a single ought (parlor size) - I include it so you can see the three "small bodied" guitars from Martins past



Here is a great comparison of some of the different models

https://umgf.com/000-vs-om-t5309.html#p4966

And last, but not least, if you want to build a historically correct model you will have to research it yourself (and realize that you probably can't get some of the materials) - if you want an 000 sized guitar with your own binding, purfling, woods, etc I can direct you to some references

Again. Very helpful.
I’m wanting to learn to do a slotted headstock, as I just think they are cool!
I could be totally wrong, but I believe I have barely enough experience to build one even if my plan is generic.
My current plan is 25.340” scale with 1 9/16 spacing between the e strings. The nut is 1 7/8 and displays a typical pyramid bridge.


I suppose what I need to do is determine what I would like to immulate and then go find those particular plans / molds



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All beautiful instruments sir


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Let me help confuse you all a bit more
The 000 was 12 fret before it also becam 14 fret
usually wider nut width but they were 15 28 most common
Mahogany is 15 rosewood was on 21 on up
the changes that are noteworthy are
A red spruce to Sitka
after 1939 sitka started to replace red sprcue
B neck block change in 39 to a smaller neck block
C herringbone and zigzag was the 28 style along then by the 40's herringbone was gone
D bracing angle changed later
E tucked braces and plate
F neck reinforcement
Ebony was used then Tee bar back to ebony theb after the war T bar then Tube then adjusting rod in the 80's
G back braces changed in the 80's


these are basic design changes

the actual body shape has changed a few times over the years and they were subtle .
Angle during the pre war is aroung 98 degrees
just to help a little

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Thank you. The 000 and 00 were both built from the StewMac plans that you have, I simply scaled the body down a bit to make the smaller one and moved a few things around. Important things - here is the insides of the 000



and the double



They are each a different level of finish - the 000 was bound in plastic (which I don't care for but might be period correct) and has a simple abalone rosette



The 00 is as basic as you can get - it is bound in mahogany but designed to look like it isn't (no purfling or any contrast) and the rosette is simple rope.



And the little 0 was kind of based on Joan Baez's 0-42, its a girly guitar so its got girl pearl



None of those are true Martin models but each seems to fit its theme

When you get ready to do the slot head ping me, I have a pretty good series of pictures of a scarf joined slot head with volute. One of the important things, as always, is thinking about the order to do various operations.

If you can find a copy of Mike Longworth's book on Martin guitars it gives a history of the company and a lot of the technical information on the guitars. Some information of when changes were made to various models, production numbers by model and year, sizes of the instruments, etc. The book has been edited and augmented into 3 volumes by Richard Johnston and Dick Boak and is probably more complete but I haven't seen that version. I have a well worn version of the original volume I bought new, years ago.
If you would like to try your hand at the modified bridle joint ( bird's beak, diamond volute ) used on some of the early originals you can ping me also.

SnowMan, the plans that you have will build a perfectly acceptable LONG scale 12 FRET triple ought sized guitar. One important thing is that it will fit in commercially available cases (TKL, etc) - always a good consideration.

I want to be very careful talking about plans right now. Please note that these are Martin long scale 25.34 inch. You can move things slightly to make it 25.40 if you want, it would take quite a bit of work to make it short 24.9 scale. It would also take a fair amount of work to make it 14 frets clear - a 14 fret 000 is approximately the same body size as an OM but is usually short 24.9 scale.

My point, the StewMac plans are for one permutation of 000 and I like mine just fine, but if that is not the guitar you want you either need to modify them or find something else.

The other parts of the design are up to you. If you want to follow Martin's nomenclature from the '30's John Hall and Longworth are good references. Basically the 000-17 was all mahogany, 000-18 spruce over mahogany and 000-28 spruce over rosewood. 41, 42, and 45 where different levels of pearl trim, both the body and head. there are a couple of modern artist sig models, most notably the Eric Clapton versions. I personally think the ought sizes should be somewhat true to their vintage brothers and sisters but really, you can do any wood combination, level of bling or anything else you want.

Anyway, they are great guitars and you need to add one to your quiver.

Freeman.
At this point my intent is to do a 12 fretter. I have a great little Slope D 12 from Halcyon and Ed and feel like a 12 fretter just has a great character.
You’re correct in that this plan is 25.340” scale length.
I’ve learned a little about the trim aspects of the 000, and I’m still a bit up in the air with it.
I’m not particularly after building a Martin clone, but I really do like the size of these 000. I sold one a while back and miss it.
I’ve been looking for short scale plans as an option and have thus far kind of struck out. I’ll keep searching and see what I can turn up.


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I also used the 000 McRostie plans and made 2 real nice guitars from it. Both of mine were a bit deeper in depth and I encourage you to heed Freemans advice on case fit if you are going to vary from the plans.

There is no reason you couldn't make a copy of your SM plans, do a neck layout based on the SM fret calculator and superimpose it. Or for that matter, if you want 24.9 scale and 12 frets make a like 12.45 inches from the end of the body - that will be your uncompensated bridge location. Its going to be very close to 1/4 inch towards the sound hole from the plans. Fiddle with braces accordingly - you might have to move the X or splay it a hair to keep the ends of the bridge sitting on the X and to not crowd the pinholes. Move the tone bars or not, whatever looks good to you. Of course when you build the neck you'll need to take the different scale into consideration.

That is basically how I made the 00. I made a copy of the 000 plans, found the measurements of a 00 somewhere on the 'net, sketched the smaller body shape using the neck to body joint (12th fret) as the pivot point, futzed with braces until the looked "right" and built the sucker.

Also, are you interested in a little essay on a quick and painless multi piece scarf joined slothead neck? I just had a PM from a friend who would like to see it, I would be happy to put it together. Also it would be fun to see Clay's birds beak joint - that is the totally elegant wood working joint that just impresses the heck out of me.

Make it your own...

http://www.swiftcreekguitars.com/000-12 ... taway.html

_________________
Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com

Sure anything that is education ... I’m interested in


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OK, here is a quickie for building a scarf joined slot head neck. I'm using a piece of 7/8 by 3 mahogany, LMII's standard neck blank. I'm also doing this with the minimum of tools because I don't have much LOL. First step is to cut the head piece off at the right angle (usually 16 degrees). Make the cut so the SHORT point is slightly longer than the length of your head. If you are using the SM plans that will be about 6-1/2 inch. This is a good time to decide if you are going to put the nut on the flat or angled part of the head (the SM plans show angled, I usually do flat).

Thin the head piece to its final thickness (I use a safety planer in my drill press) - be sure to include whatever veneers you are going to put on the head. The SM plans call for 3/4 inch. Lay the neck and head on its side, measure the total length of the neck plus enough extra to make your tenon. For a 12 fret guitar that will be half your scale length plus the nut (if on flat) plus 3/4 or so for the tenon. Cut up the left over part of the neck stock to make a couple of blocks for the heel. These are the pieces



The little piece under the joint will become the volute. It is mostly decorative but maybe adds a little strength. Optional of course.

The 3 inch wide head is perfect for the 2-29/32 called for by the drawing. Important thing now is to do the slots, it is much easier than after the neck is assembled. The slots can be either rounded at the ends or squared off, if square they still need a tiny bit of radius in the corners. SM plans show round so I just drill out all the waste with a 1/2 inch bit. Remember that the sides of the head are taperd



Clean up the slots. If I was doing a squared cornered slot I would drill the four corners with a small bit, drill out the waste with the 1/2 and clean up with a rasp.



Figure out how you are going to hold everything while you glue it up. You'll get a really good physics lesson in how wedges work - as you apply pressure things just want to squirt apart. Anyway, this seems to work pretty well - a block of wood is clamped to the bench, neck stick is clamped to that. Smear glue on the joint and slide the head into the notch. Put a block on the end (tap it in tight with a hammer) and clamp that down. Now add clamps at the joint itself. Look for a good squeeze out on all sides of the joint



Add the heel blocks and if you want, the little volute

I'm going to run into a limit on number of pictures so I'll start another post.

While the sides of the neck are still square do as many operations as possible that reference them. Route or table saw the truss rod channel



Depending on the kind of neck joint you are going to use you can do many of the cuts now



If you are going to band saw the thickness of the neck now is the time to do it. After you've got all the square cuts made you can do the tapered sides



And carve as usual, including the dart

Add the head plate and any veneers. If you haven't glued the fretboard on yet clamp it in position and put a piece of scrap the thickness of your nut on the end. Bevel the end of your head plate so it butts up against the dummy nut. Glue it on, then knock the dummy nut out so it won't get glued in place



Route out the slots and taper the entrance to give string clearance





(if you sandwich a light veneer under the head plate you get a really cool light colored line here - I didn't do it on this guitar because I wanted a really basic cheap look).

Carefully measure the tuner spacing - use a jig if you have one. If not you can clamp the head to a big block of wood and level it on your drill press table. Put a scrap in the slot and set a depth gauge on the drill. If you are going to use 3 on a plate tuners make sure all three holes are perfectly parallel to each other



Mount the tuners



Add bling