Official Luthiers Forum!

I have a chance to get some good deals at a "Our Father who bought a lot of nice tools just died and we want to sell everything fast and move out of state" sale.

I saw an Apollo spray system there which looks pretty nice. And many spray guns. But I have no idea what to look for in the spray guns. He was using it to spray cars. High-end Hobby. I have zero experience in spray equipment. I have no idea what to look for as far as gun types and sizes and also if they work or not. Is it just the compressor, hose and gun or are there other components that might be laying around?

I imagine if air comes out of the compressor and doesn't sound weird it's probably okay? I might be spraying typical guitar finishes. Nitro, shellac.....etc. I've heard people mention 1mm tips.

Gravity or bottom feeder?

Thanks!

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Pat

1mm - 1.3mm tip is best for nitro. Nitro is pretty forgiving. You can do a good job with a cheap gun but a better gun will likely save you a lot of time finish sanding. You could use a smaller tip for shellac depending on the gun. I use the same gun with 1.2 mm for nitro and shellac, for guitars, but dial the volume and air way back for shellac and dye. HVLP is best but will still require a minimum 20 gallon compressor (a little small but useable) and water traps. I put regulators on my guns. The cheap ones work fine but I'm sure you could pay a lot if you want to.

All of my guns are now gravity feed.

Good Luck!

I dunno. Could u post an inventory? Sometimes those are available for sales like that. I’m betting the guy knew how to take care of those guns too.

I will have to respectfully disagree with the requirement of a 20 gallon compressor.

if the compressor can put out enough CFM then there is no need for a larger tank...I've got a 25 year old Campbell Hausfeld twin tank wheelbarrow compressor that is rated at 7.2 CFM @ 40 psi...I've been told this is under rated and I have to agree considering what I've seen using it over the years. using my Binks Mach1 SL gun with a 1.2 tip and an aircap that was released just after I got the gun (I honestly forget the specifics, but it was between what I got with the gun and was stated as being applicable for my air supply and the next above it which required more air supply than I have) and I know for a fact that I could spray constantly and the compressor perfectly keeps up with it. said cap is rated at 8 CFM requirement.

while I've read about the concept of some sort of disruption in spraying when the compressor kicks in, I've NEVER seen it.

BUT: a large tank is pretty much a requirement if you don't have a pump capable of putting out the volume required to constantly spray...the concept being you can most likely spray a decent sized project with a large tank without the compressor kicking in.

in addition to water traps (and yeah, I totally agree with the use of the plural) you will also need an oil trap if the compressor uses oil

jeff jewitt has an excellent book with a dvd spray finishing made simple . Got a copy from the library. also jay lichty had a link on here about spray finishing using simple equipment link might be available (free) here on the OLF

Here's what I'd scope out, if I needed it:
Compressor - there's always room for a good compressor (especially with my newly redone venturi vacuum press).

HVLP Gravity feed guns - if its not HVLP, and its not gravity feed, and its not in the Sata/Iwata/et al arena. . . I'd pass.
See if he has a detail gun, for smaller jobs (still, HVLP and gravity feed). If he has a true HVLP system, then that's another story - put that at the top of your list, if its a good one.

Hoses, fittings, filters, and air dryer. Maybe a supply of expendable materials like cone filters and tack rags.

PPE - see if he has a spray suit you can grab.

All good information here. I can't answer your question but if I was in a hurry for this information I'd try to place a call to Jeff Jewett at Homestead Finishing. He sells spray equipment but in my experience he's also a nice, helpful guy who would most likely try to answer your questions. Check out his web site first - homesteadfinishing.com. There's a lot of good information there.

This is one of those self-contained multi compressor sprayers. I assume it's like the Fuji three and four stage units that I hear people talk about. I saw it, it's a little green box with a round filter sticking out of the side. It's an Apollo but I'm not sure which model. I just saw it there when I was picking up a Festool vac. There were at least three or four spray guns sitting around. I'm sure they are interested to sell the whole works.

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Pat

You might want to figure out exactly what you are looking at and how it will fit with what you want to do. The little green Apollo boxes on Amazon seem to range in price from 1 to 2 thousand dollars, but that is for new stuff. You could gather information off the net on the various models Apollo makes and then when you go back you will be better able know what you are looking at.
Condition has a lot to do with value, and most spray equipment does degrade from use, so you might want to try to figure out how much use it has had. You should be able to plug it in, hookup a spray gun and spray a little denatured alcohol through it to get some idea of how it works. Needles and tips can be changed out if necessary as long as they are still available for that gun.
If you have a hard time figuring out what you are buying, it's better to not pay too much for it. They say "If someone gets something for nothing, then someone got nothing for something". Although it's nice to make a fair deal, it hurts less to be the one who got something.
In my callow youth , many long years ago, I made a trade for some spray equipment - a worn out gun and a pressure pot that didn't really work well with it. It's somewhere on a shelf in a shed waiting for the day my kids will be wanting to be rid of the junk their father has accumulated.

I have been painting for about 20 years mostly automotive until I started building guitars. Spraying a clear coat on a guitar will send even the most experienced luthier running. Laying a coat of nitro or a 2k (catalyzed) finish on wood takes some practice and a $50 dollar setup will do just as good as a $9000 setup if in the hands of someone who knows his gun and materials. END OF STORY! With that said... Just go to Harbor Freight and get a HVLP touchup gun and a decent compressor preferably at least 5 horse (3 horse will do) with at least 30 gallon tank. I say that because the air compressor is at the heart of any good shop so get the most you can up front. Get a GOOD air dryer for the line and practice. You should be able to get into it for around $300 to $400 dollars. If you get good at it and start to do real volume then move to the $9000 setup with spraybooth etc... Remember a finish that will be leveled with wet sanding and buffing doesn't know if it came from a $300 Sharp gun or a inexpensive $15 Harbor Tool gun. If it is setup right they both will lay down a finish that will require the same amount of leveling. Yes the spray pattern from the expensive guns is guaranteed but I get great results from a cheap purple Harbor Tool gun too. When you decide you like to spray your finishes then relegate the cheap gun to other stuff and step up.

One more tip... Keep it clean but for God's sake don't spend hours cleaning parts on the gun that don't need it, just the cup, tip, and air ports. That is another thing about nitro it will dissolve a lot better than a catalyzed finish if you forget to clean your gun and you will. We all do eventually...LOL

Even one more tip... Do not forget to get good lighting. I mean hospital operating room grade lighting. You are most likely laying mostly clear coats and lighting will make or break your day when laying up a finish.

I'm a couple weeks/months away from finishing this batch of guitars but I did get a spray booth assembled (still needs housing) and I have a large Ingersoll Rand compressor already.

I'm thinking I just need a decent but not great gun from Lowes and this...

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200395712_200395712

I've got hoses and fittings already. There is another air dryer that can be hooked up as well. Do I need one of those as well? I intend to try water based lacquer for this first batch of spray finishes.

There's a very recent thread on LVHP systems, which is now on page 2, that has a lot of useful information that overlaps with this query. In particular, I have archived Woodie's detailed post on start-up LVHP systems for guitar makers.

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Tim Allen
"Never hurry, never rest."