Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Thu Nov 28, 2024 10:22 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Tuning instabiity
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:58 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:44 am
Posts: 5498
First name: colin
Last Name: north
Country: Scotland.
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Got an Ibanez Acoustic coming in the weekend for a check as to why it goes quickly out of tune when played, all strings
He has plenty other guitars, including another of the same model and has no problems with them.
The tuners have been changed (by someone else) in an attempt to rectify this, with no improvement.
Got to be the scale length or string tension is varying somehow, so I'll be checking nut, bridge, saddle and neck stability as well as checking out the tuners.
Anyone suggest any possible reasons?

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tuning instabiity
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:55 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:10 pm
Posts: 279
First name: Chris
Last Name: Reed
City: Stowmarket
State: Suffolk
Zip/Postal Code: IP14 2EX
Country: UK
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
A very common reason is lots of string wound on the tuner posts.

Just enough turns to prevent slipping (2 or 3) is best.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tuning instabiity
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:20 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:50 pm
Posts: 2257
Location: Seattle WA
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
profchris wrote:
A very common reason is lots of string wound on the tuner posts.

Just enough turns to prevent slipping (2 or 3) is best.

Never heard of that. Unless maybe if they were overlapping on themselves.

Only thing I could think of is a loose nut.

_________________
Pat


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tuning instabiity
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:37 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:04 am
Posts: 5825
First name: Chris
Last Name: Pile
City: Wichita
State: Kansas
Country: Good old US of A
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
My checklist for years is as follows:
Check the tuners - mounting screw tight? Retaining nut tight? Is the knob tight?
Nut height set low for best intonation? Nut slots binding?
Frets loose or badly worn? Are they really high, and the player uses too much finger pressure?
Bridge, affixed properly? Loose saddle, intonated correctly? Action just too high?
Finally.... Strings - are they bent anywhere? Is the wrapping on the wound strings loose?
Good luck and let us know what happens.

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tuning instabiity
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:34 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:17 am
Posts: 1011
Location: United States
City: Tyler
State: Texas
Make sure the string end balls are seated up against the bridge plate. Snugly.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tuning instabiity
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:24 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:13 pm
Posts: 834
Location: Durango CO
First name: Dave
Last Name: Farmer
City: Durango
State: CO
I make sure the player with the problem shows me how he tunes and plays and duplicates the problem in front of me. I amazed at the strange things people do and wonder why its not working.

Nut slots. #1

I would also make sure the saddle is flat bottomed and not teetering on a piece of beer label or half a ham sandwich as a shim.

Other than plastic rollers coming loose from shafts on nylon tuners, I don't think I've ever found tuning instability resulting from the tuners themselves.



These users thanked the author david farmer for the post: Pmaj7 (Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:56 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tuning instabiity
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:51 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:44 am
Posts: 5498
First name: colin
Last Name: north
Country: Scotland.
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Quote:
......... on a piece of beer label or half a ham sandwich as a shim.
laughing6-hehe
Nothing would surprise me.
Had a classical in earlier in the year where the intonation must have been poor and 1 mm was hacked off the top end of the FB with a saw in an attempt to correct it by compensating nut position.
The wider replacment (butchered) nut was on top of a strip of soft clear neoprene plastic tubing to lift it high enough to cut sting slots......
Said he'd got a cheap deal on Eb*y
And thanks, I'll be checking the string slots are not binding, etc.

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tuning instabiity
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:01 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:28 am
Posts: 184
First name: Leonard
Last Name: Duke
City: Kalamazoo
State: MI
Zip/Postal Code: 49001
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
Could be caused by a couple of cracks or unglued joints in the guitar. Tune the guitar, then hold the body firmly with your right elbow while you push the headstock left, right, up, and down enough to make a slight tuning warble. Then the guitar should come back to the same tuning it started with. If not, check everything listed in this thread. In my experience tuning instability can be caused by almost any part of the guitar... except the tuners themselves.



These users thanked the author philosofriend for the post: Colin North (Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:22 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tuning instabiity
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:13 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:44 am
Posts: 5498
First name: colin
Last Name: north
Country: Scotland.
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
New nut was the problem.
Nut slots looked "as supplied", spaced but not filed after fitting, just slapped in by local music store- all too high, and horizontal, no backslope at all.
Frets dressed (worn), saddle radiused properly to 10" as FB, all set up and intonated for 10's tuned a semitone down.
Now going to be his favourite acoustic for gigging.

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tuning instabiity
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:32 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:13 pm
Posts: 834
Location: Durango CO
First name: Dave
Last Name: Farmer
City: Durango
State: CO
Good nut slots are the fastest way to a players heart.

It's helpful to have those straight up fixes to look back on when you loose an afternoon futilely chasing a hardware buzz around. [headinwall]

Anyone think a Fishman trap door pre-amp would still work if the whole thing was dipped in a can of liquid rubber? [uncle]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tuning instabiity
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:44 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:44 am
Posts: 5498
First name: colin
Last Name: north
Country: Scotland.
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Duct tape?

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.



These users thanked the author Colin North for the post: david farmer (Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:38 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 33 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com