Official Luthiers Forum!

greetings. new member. first post.

while cleaning out a deceased relatives storage shed this past weekend i discovered an incomplete 19-fret (no trussrod), jazz-style, archtop acoustic guitar. nobody in the family has any idea of it's source. headstock is blank and undrilled. no tailpiece. someone cut an oval hole where a neck pickup might have gone. not sure if they were planning a pickup or just a small sound hole.

anyway. it seems reasonably well constructed. and i'd like to take on completing it to playable condition. so here are my questions:

- is there any magic (aside from operability) to where the holes are drilled for the tuners?
- a quick web search indicates that a floating bridge appears to be the way to go. is that indeed the case? and is there any tone-wisdom as to choosing a tune-o-matic type as opposed to fixed saddles?
- tailpieces? it seems nearly all (non-trems) have some sort of harp/paddle/trapeze kind of thing anchored to the bottom edge of the body. is there any reason that i couldn't cut oval holes in the top, somewhere behind the bridge area. resulting in a sort of "string though body" that some solid body guitars have?

thanks in advance - wG

Hello
First I will say that's a very interesting and cool find!
It sounds rare and precious and has some history too
Assuming it's in good condition, properly constructed and possibly functional it the sort of work taken to make one of these usually means a valuable instrument(in time if not in actual resale value)

-If I may I'll offer the following advice on my experience with archtops (I'm assuming you play guitar)

Before you do anything have someone qualified (a music store repair person or a reputable luthier to have a look and tell you what you have. This will help ALOT! and will determine a lot of your other decisions.

1st DO NOT cut oval holes in it to try and run strings through the body. That will essentially kill the guitar and I can almost guarantee it won't in anyway work. This instrument, in that respect is nothing like a solid body instrument and as such can't be treated as one, you should buy a tailpiece appropriate for your guitar , I would reccommened finding a music store with a good luthier or finding a good luthier and asking them to reccommend something

- dito the music store luthier comment above regarding the floating bridge, tunamatics are best for electrics where the additon of electronics sometimes negates some of the acoustic qualities (I don't like tunematics anyway bit that's the only possible time I would use one) A simple classic ebony or rosewood adjustable archtop bridge would be ideal, usually you get one to match the wood of your fretboard. Archtops were desiged to have floating wooden bridges. tunematics will suck up the acoustic sound with the all the moving parts.
- If you are not familiar with doing it I would also not drill your own tuner holes as you might possibly devalue or even destroy a unique and or valuable instrument (see getting luthier to check it out above!!) It can be done but it should be done well and in a way that suits the instrument and functions well. It is possible to screw it up pretty bad and not just cosmetically.

Basically get it checked out by a pro, lots of them will do this for free(sorry pros) and could probably asses in a very quick time. I know i could and I'm not a pro luthier by any stretch. It would also help if you posted some good quality photos here from several different viewpoints.

cool find!

Quite often the spacing of the tuners is done to the old standard for three on one plate tuners even when the guitar will have six separate tuners. You could get the spacing of those from the stewmac website catalog. Look at guitars with a similar headstock to yours, make full size drawings and try to put the tuners where they look normal.
The tunomatic bridge will help the guitar do a better imitation of a rockabilly, rock or hot country guitar. A wooden saddle will contribute towards that old-fashioned jazz guitar tone.
The trapeze tailpiece is an important part of the expected tone from an archtop.

here's a link to some photos.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ubzr5inlvl91 ... Ea9Ua?dl=0

it's a really odd situation.
- the fretboard has clearly seen strings. but the headstock isn't drilled.
- the bottom of the body has holes drilled for a tailpiece. but there are no signs of a bridge ever being used.
- it's been on a shelf, uncased for i don't know how many years. and it's totally unfinished. and while the shed is reasonably weather sealed, it's uninsulated. so 100+º summers, winters in the 30ºs, and oppressive texas humidity are factors. BUT there are no signs of delaminating, warping or cracks anywhere. maybe that's a good thing. but maybe it's bad.

I couldn't tell from that pic, is the top a solid piece of wood or some laminated thing?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Pics just got done downloading where I could zoom in... whoa. That thing looks like a tank. How big are those braces you can see looking in the Oval soundhole?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

it's some sort of laminate. top and bottom plies are crazy-ass thin. i thought it was solid until i took that close up pic.

ha. they are a bit fat. but that one is a sort of optical illusion. the cut for the hole goes along the length of the brace. making it look ridiculously chunky. i thought the same thing at first glance.

I don't think there's any magic--especially acoustic magic--about where the tuner holes are drilled. There are some basic considerations, though. Start with you tuners and see how much spacing the gear housing on the back requires between tuners. Then plot a path from each of your nut slots to each of you proposed tuner posts. Will those paths pinch the strings in their nut slots? Will the strings slip through easily? These are important considerations. Do you have comfortable finger room on the tuning knobs between the various strings? This is important, too. You don't want to knock one string out of tune while pulling another up into tune.

I recommend you buy your tuners and then draw everything out on a template of your headstock, with the string paths running up to the posts from their nut slots. Keep drawing until you get the most optimal string paths you can draw. Then, take a deep breath and drill. After that, you can cut a new shape to your tuning head.

I think you will be alright. If it's not perfect (most of us have guitars where the string paths are not perfect) don't despair. Just build a new one and do better the next time. In a nutshell, that's how most people here have learned.

You have an inexpensive laminated archtop guitar with a hole cut in the top which cut through a structural brace, a messed up f-fole , no finish and a bunch of worm/insect holes in the back plate. There are no tuner holes because someone cut the headstock and glued on and shaped some replacement pieces. That work looks reasonable, probably repairing some other previous abuse.

Bonfire time.

Steve

I'm with Steve. Genuine POS.

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Whooee!
Yes as Steve said. Head stock has had new 'wings' put on it and done pretty well. The rest of the guitar is pretty savaged
It looks like a generic plywood archtop and whoever cut the oval hole has cut through the two main structural braces most archtops have to support the top.
Seems like it might be best as a curious wall hanger if painted an attractive colour

Cut the top off, put in some shelves and hang it on the wall?

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

turns out it once belonged to my uncle. he doesn't remember why he had it. but got it from some austin player of some respect, 20+ years ago.

the only reason that i'm even remotely interested in setting it up (even just as a back porch beater) is that considering how many years its been in that shed through hot, humid, texas summers. i'd think that things would be delaminated or cracked or something. and aside from the poor cut jobs and obvious pest stains. it's completely intact.