Official Luthiers Forum!

Thanks for all the tips on here on neck repairs, I am trying to take it all on board before my next attempt to repair my Gibson SG Voodoo headstock.
My SG neck (headstock) was cracked when I bought it off E-BAY and has since been professionally repaired, but then suffered another accident opening up the crack again. This time I glued it myself with wood glue and it was fine for a few years until a further accident saw it pulled off the stand and the crack has now spread to the edges of the headstock and opened up a bit. The guitar still plays but is buzzing on bass E string. The crack can be opened up by putting some pressure on the headstock.

I just wondered
1. Is it better to actually completely break the headstock/neck and then reset it and re-glue or just try to open up the crack and inject glue (thinned) and blown in with airline / then full strength glue and clamp etc.
2. A few people have show videos on you tube with repairs that include drilling and inserting screws. Is this a bad idea?
Has anyone used wooden dowels to increase the strength?
3. no one has mentioned whether the truss rod should be slackened off before gluing / clamping and adjusted afterwards or just left as is.

Is there a way to get rid of old glue in the crack (wood glue) - solvent ?

PU glue (titebond ) and clamps are on order.

Any additional knowledgably suggestions welcome.

The guitar is not my only guitar and only sees lite use, so I don't want to spend a small fortune getting another luthier repair, seems most aren't 'interested' in repairing guitars.
Will try post some pictures

1. It depends
2. Never use screws, no matter what. (seriously, it's a hack repair technique and needs to die, it just does not work)
3. Again, it depends
4. Again, it depends (de-glue goo sometimes works)

Post some pictures of the break in question and we can get further along than just a series of questions. Do you know what type of glue the previous repair used?

No Screws or dowels! splines maybe . but only if it really needs it... pics will help.

Glue will not stick to old glue...so as this is the third break it will need some real attention..,.Is it a failed glue joint on a previous break or a new break beside the old one? Each improper repair will make the neck weaker and more prone to break again and then you can wind up like this. http://howardguitars.blogspot.com/2015/01/severely-shattered-neck-repair.html



Then I would say maybe you are talking to techs and not luthiers.....

_________________
Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

Or perhaps he is talking to professional luthiers, but their "interest" in repairing guitars is tied to his interest in fairly compensating them for their professional services. Kind of a big component of being a professional and making a living. I wouldn't judge my mechanic as being not truly "interested" in fixing my car if they turned down a job that had been messed up by me several times before bringing it in to them, or If the spare change I felt like investing in it didn't match the fees they had to bill to do the job proper.

In any case, yes, pictures are good, screws and dowels are bad, and every time it is patched together with less than ideal methods or materials, it makes service in the future even more difficult and complicated. If it's been broken and glued up three times so far, it may very well be at a point where a proper, durable repair could be more complicated than a do-it-yourselfer could easily pull off, and expensive to have professionally done.

_________________
Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

Thanks for your comments.
Glue used was a general purpose wood glue - white stuff that dries clear - stuff for furnature/flooring etc.
think it was water based as it cleaned up with water.

I checked out that link to fractured guitar neck - mines not near as bad as that.
much higher up the neck. there are no splines put in.

Thought the screws idea was a botch so won't be doing that.

The re-break is on the existing crack line but extends beyond original.

I will get pictures, sorry for delay.

There are not that many luthiers in our neck of the woods - when travelling included / time off work it would be cheaper to buy another guitar - I did. It's Just that I like this one as I love the sound and playability of it and also have a midi pickup built onto it. The other Guitar models I have don't have same string spacing to match the hex pickup or space above the bridge to accommodate it. So its worth a go at repairing it myself. If it fails then its just going to be put down to experience.

here are pictures.


The first one is with a bit of hand pressure put on head stock to open it up.
i could open it up more with more pressure and the headstock held in a vice, but it might break off completely.

My take on this...

The previous repair actually negated alot of what could be done after the fact. Brian has already pointed out that glue will not stick to more glue (except protein glues like hide and fish) and it looks like there was alot smeared around/crammed in there. Getting it out would be nigh impossible without breaking the headstock off completely (I don't recommend that).

So you have options.

1. Superglue/Epoxy. You need something with strong cohesive strength, since this looks terribly contaminated (depending upon how much glue actually got in there) this might be a good choice to make it work.

2. Splines. Brian said earlier they have their place, however they are not for the newbie, even with this you'll still have to deal with closing the crack.

If I can think of another option I'll chime back in. Brian is definitely going to have more to say on this matter (and more skill) than I. So hopefully he'll offer some wisdom.

Unfortunately this is what often happens when a repair is not done well the first time around. Getting the break cleaned of all the old glue at this point and still having a mating surface with enough contact to glue at this point will be near impossible even if you break it completely off. The direction the break takes up the peg head also would make a total break and repair difficult. I can see the head stock face veneer starting to bubble up from pressure right in front of the nut in pic 2...so I would advise removing string tension until repairs are made to avoid making a more complex repair than you already have.

So as Dan mentioned one option is an epoxy. That would be my choice I think based on what I can see. I avoid CA for structural repairs whenever possible as that is a truely one way street...if that fails there is little else that can be done.

I don't think this would need splines to make a solid repair at this point as long as epoxy can be worked deep into the crack before clamping.

_________________
Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

I would use epoxy on that as well. Looks like the break is along the original scarf joint and is very contaminated. Something like Smiths All Wood epoxy will put that back together and hold it forever... Well at least until you drop it again but then it will break along another line

We've had great results with a product called Fill n' Finish and you can shoot lacquer over it so the repair can be invisible.

Okay, seems there is a consensus on Epoxy, ( I guess that PU glue is out then).
Is there any mileage in a De-glue pre-treatment (someone mentioned de-glue) or any solvent use. -I would guess that would just contaminate it all and cause problems for the epoxy glue later.
Has any one ever used mechanical cleaning -say, high pressure air jet to get into the crack remove old glue?

Nah.... That ain't gonna work.

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Yes and that will not work. Like I said before what the previous repair person did negated alot of what could be done, he left you now with little to no recourse to fix the problem.

hi, thanks again for all your advise, comments.
With trepidation I finally took the bit between my teeth and cleaned up the old glue overspill area with a fresh Stanley blade and scraped off the laquer around the crack. scraped out any glue I could with the blade and guitar string. Blew it out with compressed air and purchased some Araldite (Slow cure) epoxy from our local hardware store.
Stuck the guitar upside down in the vice and opened up the crack as much as I dare. I heated a ceramic dish in the microwave and then added the epoxy which went visibly runny. I packed as much of this into the crack as I could and worked the crack open and closed while packing in the epoxy for about twenty minutes. At one point when working the head back and forth the wood gave a splintering sound and I thought I had broken the headstock off, but it must have been some old glue giving way as it still seemed just as solid afterwards. I then closed it up with some clamps and quite stiff pressure, then left it for 24 hours to cure.
I have now restrung it and it seems good, but I have a buzz on fourth string open. Adjusting the bridge made no difference. I checked the bow ( it has some relief ) max around 5-6th fret. Stuck a little PVC tape under the nut on 4th string and its fine. no buzz. I have a fresh graphite nut that I can fit and set it up again so will get around to that after it has all settled down.
Plays beautifully again, and intonation near perfect , better than my new Gibson.

Will try avoid future disasters and always leave it in the case , not on the stand.

Special thanks to Brian Howard for cautious advice and faith in an epoxy repair. It think it shouldn't break on its own - only of its dropped/toppled over. Then its my own fault.

https://soundcloud.com/finb/guitar-of-glue
sorry but it just a bit of fun
the original song about 'the guitar of glue' played on the gibson in the thread above , between headstock breaks
All references to Fender are completely random