Official Luthiers Forum!

Following on from my "Things I've never understood" thread.

I have a guitar that was built for me about 14 years ago by a very well known long experienced English Luthier. To cut a very long and boring story short, the guitar has too much relief on the bass side of the neck and the board rises slightly at the body end on the bass side. I can get the treble side spot on with the truss rod almost completely relaxed. However the real big issue is that there is an approx 4 degree rotation of the headstock that follows through to the fretboard up till about the 5th fret when the neck starts to get closer to the plane of the body. The guitar plays and sounds ok if the action is quite high on the bass side. Also as a jazz player I can go years without playing an open chord at the nut but spend most of my time at the 6th position playing in F, Bb, Eb, Ab, Db. The common jazz keys. That is, right bang in the middle of the bass relief hollow I don't need.

How would you professional guys approach solving this. Bearing in mind I've never done anything much beyond intonation and truss rod adjustments.

PS the guitar has been 'set up' by three different local 'luthiers' and the neck twist is still an issue. I have decided to try to do the work myself.

The guitar is a 175 style jazzer.

Thanks.

Sometimes this can be corrected in a refret with strategic board leveling, but it depends on the degree. It sounds as though your case may have some pretty severe warping, which could involve rebuilding or possibly replacing the neck entirely. Each case is different, and hard to prescribe a recommended course of action without seeing it first hand. Most likely though, the required correction will require moderate to major work, and could vary from costly to entirely cost-prohibitive.

_________________
Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

I wouldn't describe it as severe.
My plan was to remove nut and frets. Then sand the board flat in the correct plane using a spirit level cf the body. I don't want a radiused board. Then re assemble.
How nuts is this idea? It's a bit scary as I've not done this before.

No Luthier is going to be able to get a twist out of a neck without completely releveling the neck and in this case likely having to reslot the fret board in some areas too.

If you want to flatten the radius out of the neck as per your other thread know in advance that you will likely have to recut the fret slots as well. This involves some special tools, an appropriate blade with a kerf that will work well for standard fret wire, refretting the neck, etc.

Is this a big deal? You bet!

Again as David said any pro would have to see the thing for themselves but it very well may be that for where you want to go this neck is toast.

That rise that you speak of at the body is VERY common, sucks, and is one of the reasons why some of us advocate "fall-away" and doing what it takes to build the proper geometry into the instrument in the first place.

One more thing: We don't know if this is an electric, acoustic or what, you didn't really say. If you remove the radius from the neck you will need to match the flattening with the saddle(s). Be sure that what ever kind of guitar that this is you have the ability to flatten the saddle(s) too. The nut will need to be recut too in so much as you are flattening the radius completely out of the fret plane so you will want the strings to match.

If it's an electric and you have non-adjustable pole pieces that can be problematic too when the radius is removed from the "system..."

Not trying to scare you but I am trying to realistically describe everything that I can think of that you may encounter. It may be that you are better off starting from scratch and either building or having a new instrument built to your specs. And relax, I don't build anymore at least at present so my comments have nothing to do with selling you anything.

We do do repair work and lots of it too. Would we take this one on? Hell no and not because we could not handle the job I wouldn't take it on because it's so very outside the norm that defining and agreeing on a specific beginning, end, and definition of success with someone wanting this set-up would likely be a nightmare.... for all concerned.... Please note smiley face too just in case my tone is not as intended, positive!

Problem is I now (understandably) am a bit fed up with the local guitar maker/repair fraternity. This has cost me serious dosh.

Thanks, I had understood the radius issue. It's an electric (neck PU only) ES175 basically. Currently with a tunomatic on a floating bridge. I thought I might either make a flat saddle of wood or just get the metal saddles level and the nut of course. C'mon guys how radical is that?
Cutting the slots....umm. I think I could do that with the information available nowerdays. I'de rather spend the money on tools than go back to another "expert."

So much for adjustable bendy guitars! This one didn't even work for the first owner, never mind the future owners some of you seem so concerned about. I will never have a guitar built for me again.

I'm not a repair guy, but ... If I were fixing this for a pal for beer, I think I'd remove the fretboard, plane the neck flat, reattach fretboard (fudging any places where it didn't fit exactly, because planing will change the shape of the planed surface a little), level and dress frets, fine tune nut and bridge and then hope. I'd think this is less work, and more likely to succeed, than planing the fretboard and re-fretting.

I wouldn't automatically blame your setup guys for not fixing it - neck twist needs more than a setup unless it's minor.

If the twist is minimal, ie enough to bother a jazz guitarist but not other players, then consider re-fretting with tall frets so you can level out the twist. Of course, you then have differing fret heights, can't say if that would work for you.

Bear in mind this is theoretical, not based on repair experience!

I was sorting through our "Closet of Doom" today. Could add it to the burn pile of you like.

_________________
Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

Wait! Is that a Teisco neck sticking out in the middle of that pic?

Yes.....sadly.....

If I get what's happening here,
and if you have good working skills,
pull the frets,
get the fret board straight checking carefully,
get a fret back saw from LMI,
get the right frets for the saw,
and re fret the beast!
Worth a try, no?
If it doesn't work,
new fret board!

Any idea of it's maladies? I have one to refinish and restore as a gift for a friend. I might be interested in it for parts.

Thanks for this. The f. B. Is quite thick and this is what I aim to do. I've watched a u tube vid of someone using heat and leverage to straighten a neck twist but I reckon this maple laminate would crack as its so stiff. So levelling the f. B. Is the way to go. If I cock it up...so be it!