Official Luthiers Forum!

So, as many of you may know, Rhino 5 for Mac is going out of beta and we have until Sept 15 to get it for $295. After then, the price goes up to $500. It's a lot cheaper than the Win version because it's missing a bunch of features However, those features are to be added at no additional cost in the future.

I use SolidWorks 2012 and they're really pressing users to go under service and I'm thinking that I'll probably do that in December and sign up for a 2 year deal which will run me probably $2200-ish*.

I'm looking for people to either talk me into or talk my out of buying Rhino for Mac. I've had the beta on my Mac (my main computer, I have a PC strictly for SolidWorks) and I probably use it a half dozen times a year to smooth the import of Rhino files to SolidWorks. I probably don't really "need" Rhino but for that price, I'm tempted to pick it up.

So, talk me in or out of it please....

* In the past, if you let your maintenance subscription lapse, there was a $500 reinstatement fee + the cost of the maintenance fee to get back on it. My reseller contacted me to let me know that Dassault is changing their policy to charge the $500 penalty per year you're off service. e.g. if you're off service for three years, the penalty is $1500, four it's $2000 etc. Very obnoxious policy that really sticks it to us small guys who don't have the volume to afford annual updates.

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http://www.birkonium.com CNC Products for Luthiers
http://banduramaker.blogspot.com

Andy, I picked up a copy to have 3d software for my hobby cnc. All I had previously was Vectric Vcarve which is great for what it does but doesn't really do 2d well and doesn't do 3d at all. Actually, I think it was your recommendation that steered me to Rhino mac!

I'm not a power user by any means, but really like it. It is very fast on my macbook, and I even use it for 2d and export to the vectric for cutting, because it is easier to model accurately than the Vectric is.

I used Catia in industry, and have to fight my habits on how it "ought to work", but it has a good manual and there are tutorials on the web.

I think it is quite the deal, and I didn't even know that we'd get the missing features free when they are added!
Mike

Rhino and Solidworks are worlds apart. I started with Rhino 4 and only got to be a so-so user. I tried to transition to Solidworks and was totally lost. Don't base your decision on me since I am a 'casual' 3D user, but I just can't get in tune with Solidworks. Probably BECAUSE I am a casual user.

Just to clarify - I'm currently using SolidWorks 2012 and am pretty good with it. I have a fully design table driven model of an acoustic neck where I can change volute types, dimensions, profiles etc just by changing cells in a spreadsheet.

I also have the beta of Rhino for Mac (I like Mac better than Win) because it's free.

I'm trying to decide whether it's worth $300 just to have Rhino sitting around "just in case"

I'd say I'm a power user of SolidWorks but I have a hard time finding my way around Rhino

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http://www.birkonium.com CNC Products for Luthiers
http://banduramaker.blogspot.com

I think Rhino is great, but if you have SolidWorks why bother? I got Rhino at a great price because I was taking a class at the community college and qualified for a student discount. Think it set me back ... $200? I believe one seat of SolidWorks is 15 times that. No brainer for me. I've been able to do everything I want on Rhino. I do know that Rhino doesn't handle assemblies (being able to link parts together and move them to see how they interact). Since I'm not designing pistons, it hasn't been a problem.

I think it's similar to the old MAC/PC thing. Whatever floats your boat, I say.

Andy. I like Rhino and so do a lot of us. I like working in one platform and use Madcam fir cam which is very capable. You are likely to get sucked into the plugins like Grasshoper to do your parametric stuff so think of that cost and time cost also.


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Ken

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Ken

Assumption: Your Solidworks seat keeps working if you give up maintenance, you just stop getting updates.

Then I say there are VERY good reasons to let it lapse, perhaps overwhelming.

1- It'll keep working as-is for no more money for the foreseeable future
2- OnShape will have surpassed Solidworks in every way (minus simulation) well before that two years is up
3- You should have Rhino anyways, it does lots of things better than Solidworks when it comes to 2D and complex surfaces
4- F their bullying tactics. They're doing it because they're afraid of their competitors if users are too free to compare.

Keep using your current seat of SW until it stops working, transition your work to OnShape as new features permit, start using Rhino actively because it's great. The team behind OnShape IS the original Solidworks team, and they're doing everything better from the ground up (including the business model).

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Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

Hey Bob,

Unfortunately, I missed the intro pricing for Rhino by a day because I've just been crammed with all kinds of things that need immediate attention but...

I've been researching this whole SW thing and pretty much came to the same conclusions you have as have many other SW users. Their forum is jammed with people seriously peeved over this policy change. The funny thing is that if had they not changed their policy, I'd be sticking with SW no questions asked.

Because they did change their policy I started investigating other things and Fusion 360 actually looks like it's fantastic bang for your buck, even though to get full 3D milling you need to get the pro package which is $1.2k/year. It's still a bargain compared to SW.

On top of that, everything I've read is that SW 2015 is a train wreck and that 2016 changes the interface so much that most users will need to be re-trained to use it.

A shame that DSS ruined a good product....

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http://www.birkonium.com CNC Products for Luthiers
http://banduramaker.blogspot.com

12k is for rocket makers. Are there any students in your household?


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Ken

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Ken

I use the Grasshopper plugin (currently free) in Rhino to parametrically generate all my fretboards including multi-scale designs with any number of strings. I implemented it because I was tired of importing files from the fretfind2D website. I recently started generating the tuner layout and neck profile in the same Grasshopper program so I'm getting close to what you are already doing in Solidworks.

My point is that it's definitely possible to do parametric stuff in Rhino using Grasshopper. The fact that T-Splines also has Grasshopper components is really exciting for the possibility of parametric generation of complex surfaces like headstock-neck transitions or neck-heal transitions.

That said, I imagine you might find the Grasshopper working style so different from Solidworks (I don't know SW so I'm just guessing) that it might not be worth your time.

I love Rhino, but am struggling to apply Grasshopper in a productive way. Any chance you would be willing to do a tut on using Grasshopper to define a fretboard?


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Here's a good trick for fretboards: draw a fretboard with a 1 inch scale length. To make a fretboard with a 25.4 inch scale length, insert the 1 inch scale one and then scale it up by a factor of 25.4 (you can actually scale it as part of the insert function in Rhino). I just use a rectangular "fret board" and then adjust nut width and taper once I have scaled it correctly.

Trev

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That's what I've been doing too. You can also scale without using the 1 inch starting point--if I start with a 24 inch scale and want to convert it to a 25 inch scale, I use a scale 1D factor of 25/24 on the 24 inch model.

After modeling something like a compound radius fingerboard, I use Rhino's scale 1D function to change scale length, width or thickness (and therefore radius) of the fingerboard. It doesn't allow things like changing width of the nut and the end of the fingerboard by different factors--definitely short of parametric, but it's still a simple way of reusing models effectively.

Dave

get fusion 360 from aoutodesk for the trial period and see if you like it. I used Unigraphics (now nx by seimans) and it works a lot like the old ug. I haven't used it since 2009, solidworks used to get there modeling kernel from ug, so you may pick it up real fast. It also has cam.