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Hi all. I have a Strat with a slightly dodgy neck and am considering my first proper repair job. With strings on, the neck surface is farthest from the strings at fret 12, which seems too far up to be healthy. The gap remains .0035" with no more adjustment available on the truss rod, very tight. Also the saddles need to be high in their range, a bit too high I feel (trem set 3/32 off the body with action around 4/64). With strings off and truss nut out, the neck is forward bowed. Around the 9th fret there is .018" between a notched straightedge and the neck. I took the truss nut out because of the fact I still have a gap at fret 12 with no more adjustment. I therefore planned to put a spacer behind the truss nut. However now with the permanent forward bow now evident, it seems I may need to sand the board flat. I may also need to put a shim behind the neck. I am looking for a second opinion or two! I have many questions about the repair process and sequencing of tasks and would really appreciate some help from folk with experience!


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.0035 is less than a sheet of paper....

You know what? How about some pix, because I can't make heads nor tails of your description.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Thanks for the reply! The first issue at the moment as the strings are off is that the neck is slightly forward bowed, with no tension from the truss rod (the nut is out). I believe it should be flat?






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OK, all well and good. Looks almost normal. What about with strings? The problem is not yet obvious to me.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

I am with Chris here . A bit of "relief" is normal in the neck . It could be a bit excessive , however it is hard to determine without it in my hands . What is the dimension at the 12th fret Top of fret to bottom of string in tuned position . Also at 1st fret ? I really dont see much issue from the Pictures I am looking at .

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When the strings go on, in order to get it near straight, I need to fully tighten the truss rod, to the uncomfortable point. This doesn't actually fully straighten it, it leaves a slight bow, with the 12th fret area farthest from the strings (only about 3-4 thous just now). This seems like two problems:

1) truss rod/neck issue with too much forward bow and not enough adjustment available
2) strange shape of neck, given the furthest deflection is at the 12th fret.

I have a spacer coming my way but I'm not sure I want to use it. The truss rod should allow straight neck with a low amount of adjustment, as it does with my tele. Given the photos I've shown, does it not appear I have a warped neck?


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The dimension I've given, 3-4 thous, relates to the distance between the neck at 12th fret and a notched straightedge. Thanks for your thoughts guys


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I think I see the problem.... you think the neck is SUPPOSED to be laser straight under tension. It's not. It should have a little bow.... room for the string to move. Otherwise, it rattles..... a lot.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Thanks again Chris. I'm not saying every neck will be set up like that, but I do believe I should have the option of a totally straight neck. I also believe I should be able to achieve this without maxing out the truss rod requiring more torque than is comfortable to adjust. I want a straight neck that is within its adjustment range, to try it straight and if I can't play without buzzing, then be able put in some relief. This is an option on all my other guitars, but this one doesn't seem right. As I can't get the neck totally straight, if at some point I had to refret, then how would I approach this? I believe I would need to sand the board to a new plane, because of the current tendency to forward bow?


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Well, before pulling the frets and planing the fingerboard, you could try using heat and pressure to gain more room for adjustment. What I used to do was clamp up the neck so that it bent the direction I wanted it to go (but not overbent), and then used a blow dryer to gently heat the neck. You don't want it hot to the touch, OK? Just warmed through the length and depth of the neck. Once it's warm enough, swaddle that baby with plenty of towels and blankets as insulation, and let it heat soak. Come back the next day, uncover and unclamp it - check your work. Repeat if necessary.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Chris, thanks again! What I would be fearful of doing that is that I would actually be breaking down fibres in the wood by pulling it somewhere it doesn't want to be, thereby decreasing the strength of the wood? My preference is to work with the wood in the position it is in now. I am going to try again on the truss rod installing a spacer underneath the nut, to see if the nut is maxing out and causing the high resistance. If I can't get it straight any easier, I may be looking to use this as a trial for a fret dress or potentially refret (neither of which I've done before). Hopefully it feels better though and I can get a good enough result without that. The frets are pretty high so there may be enough there to avoid planing.


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Wood is tougher than you think, and it's quite common to use heat on wood for bending or straightening. Do some research and calm your worries.

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Again, I have to agree with Chris on this. I am however interested in seeing where this takes you.

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

I have some thinking to do on this guys, thanks for taking the time to help. I will let you know where I head with this.


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Have you tried "helping" the truss rod with a clamp? A board with a couple of blocks can be clamped to the neck to force the neck straight, or into a back bow. The truss rod nut should tighten easily with all the stress removed.

A single action rod usually doesn't generate enough force to straighten a badly warped neck.

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Thanks Rodger. I have tried that, but it's knowing how much pressure is acceptable. The other worry is if you then take the clamp off, there is a lot of stress on the nut threads at that point and I'm worried the threads may fail. It feels that if it too tight to tighten, then the truss rod isn't the answer. Not saying this would really cause a problem with the truss rod but that's the feeling I have!


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It's not a matter of pressure, it's a matter of deflection. You need enough pressure to actually deflect the neck. I'd probably go to about 1/16" of backbow, and tighten the truss rod about half a turn past fingertight. String it up & see if that's enough, you can always do it again if necessary.
The threads will not fail, if there's a failure it would be at the beginning of the threads. I don't think it's much of a possibility.

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A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon

Take it from an old tool and die maker - ain't gonna happen!
The truss rod would be more likely to jump out of the neck before those threads would fail.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Ok guys that sounds like a more feasible course of action. I'll try putting a bit more pressure on the wood before tightening the rod again, with the spacer in this time in the hope that allows a bit more adjustment. One question, where should I apply the pressure points? I'd guess first fret, 15th and maybe 7/8th underneath?


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Middle of the neck - 10th to 12th fret. After all the truss rod ends around the 18th fret on a Strat that adjust from the peghead. Good luck.

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

I've seen many Fender necks with excessive relief that cannot be corrected with the truss rod... the truss rod nut threads bottom out before relief is removed.

In every instance that I have seen this, the free state of the neck will have an excessive forward bow... a neck in its free state should not have an excessive forward bow.

A properly functioning truss rod should be able to (under string tension) adjust the neck to a state of negative relief, or at least get a neck straight.

The first thing to try, is adding a spacer behind the truss rod nut to extend its range. However, I have found that necks in this condition initially respond the added spacer, but over time revert to a state of excessive relief.

I was suspicious that wood fibers behind the truss rod may be compressing under truss rod load, as an explanation as to why the relief returns over time. I sacrificed a neck and milled through the fingerboard to expose the truss rod nut to confirm that suspicion, but that was inconclusive.

There is too much bow in these necks that I've seen to plane the fingerboard - that would be visually apparent, and further compromise strength.

I don't subscribe to heat pressing, especially as a long term fix.

Compression fretting with oversized fret tangs is another consideration.

Since it's a bolt-on neck, setting aside the original and replacing the neck has proved for me to be the best course of action.

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Thanks for this alternative viewpoint. It's actually probably what I thought to begin with but didn't want to admit to fully! I've tried the washer now (custom made by my cnc operator brother) and a good amount of Vaseline, and will leave it under string tension now with what is an almost straight neck, for a few days. Once it has settled I will see how much more give there is in the truss rod with a clamp applied (currently tight but not maxed) and make sure I can get it in a slight back bow and stay there. If I can, that's all I need for the foreseeable future I think. It is a lovely playing neck with the satin finish, if I have enough adjustment left in it for a good few years I'll leave it and dress the frets. Fingers crossed now!


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The fact it is a highway one reduces the attractiveness of a new neck, as it is more than half the cost of the whole guitar! Do you have a recommended manufacturer for equal or better quality necks than the fender one I have? The fender necks don't seem to be too good for long term reliability, are any other manufacturers better with maple for a good price?


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Update today guys, the neck wasn't really going past straight with only the truss rod plus new spacer. The effort required was getting a little uncomfortable, but not as bad as it had been before without the spacer. I figured I might as well put the clamp on it and a little heat. It is currently just very slightly back bowed with only the clamping force, almost straight. I will leave it 24 hours and check. If I get some good results after one or two rounds of this, I'll see how it turns out with strings back on. I would consider compression fretting as a means of maintains a good position to start with, but I'll need some decent improvement before that!


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