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Well that's what I've been stating all along Ken. You do not need to spend that amount of time hand planing boards. I guess if you are making 50 + Guitars per year, you may have to. Personally I don't know any one man luthier shops that produce that many . I'm sure they exist but they are not very common at all. There is no need to do all the boards on the same day, you can spread it over 2 or 3 days (which is what I do). Hand planing can be a little tiring but it's nothing like some of the more physical jobs that are out there in the wider world. It's more like an hour here, an hour there - with long breaks where some relatively sedentary work is involved. That's not even close to the physical graft of plastering out a couple of rooms every day. Now that is physical work.
I remember planing 4 sets in one day, Backs/Sides, fretboards and soundboards. I doubt that I could do that now, even though my methods are much faster than when I was 28.

I don't have a link. I read about it in a book a long time ago. I'll have to recall which book. At the moment it isn't coming to me. There were drawings that showed the scene. I noticed in the drawings that the planes had significantly more mass above the toe and tail, think Spiers infill.

How tuned up are your planes?

Seems to me reducing surface friction with a perfectly smooth board would not work. You want to reduce the surface friction on the sole, not on the wood.

It is plausible that the author of the book was making it up. Writers have to fill pages and sell books so yeah it could be false. We never really know. The amount of trade secrecy that exists, especially in that era could've prompted authors to just tell lies to sell books to the unsuspecting.

I've never actually tried it because I didn't want to accidentally damage anything.

-j

-j

I've got the plane, but I cannot find an eighth grader anywhere!
Seriously, I need help sharpening and setting my planes.

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wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
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I've had these in my woodworking playlist on YouTube.

Even though this first is technically to demonstrate the Woodriver #4 1/2, there's a lot you can pick up about sharpening, setting them up, and using them.



This is a more focused video on setting and using Stanley style planes. I think it's the better of the two.



David Barron's video demonstrating his wooden planes by smoothing some hardwood with "cranky" grain. This is more about technique and using the planes than setting them up. You can see how he skews. The work doesn't look like too much toil.



In the end, I feel fortunate. I have some nice, essential planes, along with a drum sander. I'm looking forward to planing the top, back, and sides of my next project. Not because I think it's better, but because I think it will be enjoyable. I'm not sure if I'll do the same with the bridge plate, headstock overlay, or clean up my braces with one, but I probably will. I'm not looking to sell the sander anytime soon. What's important to me is to get across that planing is accessible and doesn't have to break the bank with $2000 worth of planes.

I have a few basic planes and use them frequently on various tasks. A few years ago I found a steal of a deal on a lightly used Performax 10-20 on my local Craigslist. I use that for various tasks as well. I like having both.

Jimmyjames - Thanks for losing the italics; that effect should be used sparingly. For example: To set something apart for emphasis. Employed in the body of a piece it makes the text terribly hard on the eyes.

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George :-)

Give 'em some Indian rosewood and a dull blade that isn't flat on the back side, and they'll be singing a different tune

Then give 'em a really coarse diamond stone, a fine diamond stone, an ultra-fine waterstone (pre-soaked), a honing guide, and a wood block to press the blade against the stones for flattening the back, and they'll be happy again. Especially if you tell them about micro bevels. Also, the stones all need to be perfectly flat, and big enough that the honing guide's wheel can roll on the stone itself, to guarantee that the angle remains unchanged when switching grits.

For me, the difficulty of planes was learning what sharpening equipment I wanted. There are a zillion different systems, and most of them are expensive, so you better get it right the first time.

Some other details of planing: A chipbreaker should be sharp, slightly concave on the underside so it will spring down and make good contact with the blade, and positioned very close to the blade's edge. The system allows the blade to cut at a low angle where it works best, and then the chip runs into the chipbreaker and gets bent upward and broken before it can develop any leverage in front of the blade and tear out the wood.

A small mouth opening holds down the wood in front of the blade, which also helps to break the chip and prevent tearout.

So what will be interesting is if "Cablepuller" thinks it (planing and sharpening) is/was easy, no sweat, piece of cake etc. after digesting all this good information and encouragement then acting on it.

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

Dennis has it right. There's almost too many ways to sharpen, too many methods, too many types of sharpening media. That's the bit that can seem overwhelming.
If I was teaching or advising a beginner I'd be tempted to keep things very simple i.e. a two stone system with a micro bevel. One very coarse stone, one very fine stone. Forget anything in between. The very fine stone used on the micro bevel, strop at exactly the same angle. They can use the Eclipse style guide should they wish, it's cheap enough. I don't think it comes much simpler or easier. The 'stones' can be abrasive paper, if initial cost was a consideration.
With a few simple instructions it's difficult to see how one can fail. Much easier to show it in person of course.

Sharpening can be a piece of cake. It's more complicated to read about or describe than to do.

Put your blade in your guide. Stroke it back and forth 15 to 20 times on a 1000 grit stone. Move to something between 6000-8000 and repeat. Now stroke the back on that 6-8k stone a few times. It's done.

Which stones to buy? Post a thread. Everyone has their favorites, but they're all decent.

I have to take a break, guys. Exam tonight.

Or buying an $800 sander because planing's impossible

Is this good info?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOvqbrdNZBU

edited had wrong link posted

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

That's a brand new, very accurately made Plane. There's nothing to do to the actual Plane (or there shouldn't be). Sharpen the blade, position the chipbreaker, set the depth of cut, set the lateral adjustment.
It's very easy. The one he has there is a smoothing Plane. Normally only used right at the very end. It can be used to remove material reasonably quickly but that's not it's primary function. I prefer a No. 4 to a No. 4.5 but maybe that's just me.
I've had one of their Planes. Not that particular one but one from the same manufacturer. They are very good Planes.

I posted the wrong link Michael -- its changed now.

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

It's OK. You may not need that protractor, usually those type of guides have the projection written on the side of them. It's something like 35 mm's & 40 mm's for Plane irons, different for chisels. I think they are written on the side of the guide as well.

As for that ruler and the back bevel. I don't use it. With the good brand new blades it should not be necessary at all. They come very flat.
I don't know where he gets his 3 hours from. Maybe if it's a really terrible blade and it happens to be way out of flat, then I might think of going to the ruler trick. It's also good for blades that have some pitting.
I have and use a 8,000G waterstone. I'm sure a 4,000G is good enough if you strop after and you feel that the price difference is significant.
There are other options that are cheaper but waterstones cut quickly. They also go out of flat quickly but are easy to get flat again. Harder stones like Arkansas cut slowly, don't go out of flat readily but are much harder to flatten once they do.

This side of the pond they have them 10-20's on offer at the moment, 14% off, at £590 (edited) - about $960 or so.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

George, sincere apologies. I really had no idea. I've not been involved with the internet for several years, not to any appreciable degree.

-j

I use my drum sander for backs and sides (and everything else). I find using my planes so tranquil and therapeutic that there isn't much left when I'm done. The other day I spent a few minutes teaching my son how to joint an edge and a couple hours mindlessly tweaking my planes on scraps.

No worries, Jimmyjames! I'm not the boss of the Internet. :-) You have a lot to share but it's been hard (for me) to read much of what you're written, so I thought I'd applaud your switch to the norm.

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George :-)

Another option that I haven't seen yet mentioned is to take your plates to a local cabinet shop. The one near me has a nice Timesaver, and they charge me $20 per hour to use it. I bring my jointed plates, sides, my homemade thickness calipers, and they enjoy chatting with me about my hobby. I take the back and sides down to my target thicknesses, but leave the top about 15 or 20 mil thick. I do the final thinning with a ROS, in conjunction with deflection tests.

That said, I really would like a drum sander of my own. If only I had room for one...

TIP A very sharp well tuned plane is fun to use and does nice work, until you can effectively sharpen and tune your plane........... well its tough. Sharp is the answer, might as well include your chisels.

Relatively new to woodworking, did not do anything fancy before learning how build a guitar. Last fall picked up a plane from an estate sale but still need to learn the finer points of setting it up and using it. It was not usable as found but I did a half-*** clean up and sharpening using some sandpaper. Used it to take down some cherry I wanted to use for sides.

Got it down to a reasonable thickness (kind of cool having the shavings come off) and then ran the wood through my drum sander. Saved me from having to change the grit to a coarser one to take off a lot of material. Even though my sander is home built it can thickness to 0.001" across the work area. No feed on it other than my finger tips. As higher horsepower motor might be handy but I got mine cheap. Real simple, use a bolt and a threaded rod coupler to set the height. Built it to put on the shelf when not in use, use it enough that I never put it away. To me it is like my bandsaw, I could make a guitar without them but it just makes things more difficult.





Took the picture with the hood on before I cut the hole for the dust collector. Had it out in the garage but brought it in when I was building this winter. Just took my vacuum cleaner to suck up the dust. I have to make a dust collector for in the house, probably some time this summer. So many tools and jigs to make guitar making more enjoyable. While I like building I probably should spend more time practicing playing.

How do you make sure the drum sander doesn't launch the wood right at you?

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

You hold on to it, just make sure and take light passes ----- don't over think --- tens of thousands of simple drum sanders without conveyor feed systems are used daily --- even commercially made. There's several similar plans in the Guild of American Luthier Quarterly's. My first two drum sanders, we're the same simple design -- never launched a thing.

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/