Official Luthiers Forum!

I am very concerned over the future of ASIA and thought everyone here
should know. A year ago, I was the Membership Chairman and was on the
Board of Directors. I resigned because our committment to the
membership of 4 magazines a year was not being met by the
Executive Director. A year later nothing has changed. Where is the fourth
issue of Guitarmaker magazine due for the 2004 membership? I have not
received an issue in some time. Will there be four issues for the calendar
year 2005 as is currently promised at the ASIA website? It was also
promised in 2004 and not delivered. What about Symposium? Announced
at the web site but absolutely nothing else. Will we have time to plan and
set aside the time to attend? I hope that ASIA's Board responds in a
favorable way to this post and not ignore it. It is unfortunate that the
organization has come to this but I want everyone in the community to be
aware of the situation AND TALK ABOUT IT!!!

_________________
Sylvan
http://www.wellsguitars.com

Is it a management problem, or a budget problem? It seems like the board has some very well known and respected figures on it.

As I recall these are purely volunteer positions, correct?

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

I was an ASIA member 10 years ago. I went to the 1995 Symposium and had a great time, met some extremely creative and well-known guitarmakers, bought some wood, and went home fired up about the organization. Unfortunately, it was all down hill after that. Dick Boak (of Martin Guitars) had recently resigned as editor of ASIA's Guitarmaker magazine--a post I believe he'd held since the beginning. His work was all volunteer, and he faithfully got four issues per year in the hands of members. As I understand it, the time requirements simply became too much and he had to step down. The position of ASIA Executive Director/Editor then became paid, part time (for what must be a nearly full-time job, if it's done right), and the magazine has been intermittent, at best, since then. Being a novice, the magazine was really the main benefit of membership for me, and they just weren't coming through--so I let it lapse, and haven't re-upped. I periodically check ASIA's ghost-town of a web site to see if professionalism has returned, but, alas, it hasn't, and that makes me sad. By the way, yes, all the other positions at ASIA are, I think, volunteer.

Carlton

I let my membership go too because of the lack of magazines. That was
really the only benefit I got from it as I never went to a symposium. I got
some great ideas from the magazines and I wish it would be able to come
out when it is supposed to. I'd gladly pay the $55 a year....

_________________
John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

I just re-joined at $55.00, because I want to go to the symposium, and you would never know why there was a reason to join at this point. I really like ASIA.
I hope they can get it together.
Craig

_________________
www.handcraftinlay.com

Just so everyone knows, the Board is voluntary, the Executive Director,
Rick Davis is a paid employee. The new membership chairman is also a
paid employee. The Board has and still is, in my opinion, unwilling to
treat the paid employees like a business. After all, it is your money which
is paying these people!

_________________
Sylvan
http://www.wellsguitars.com

I unintentionally let my membership lapse this year. I will still pay it.

We know there's a problem, let's talk about a fix.

1. Part of the issue, as I understand it is getting articles to print.
2. Are there financial problems with getting the periodicals out? How can we deal with that? Should the Board consider raising the membership dues to accomodate this?
3. Perhaps we need to hire an independent printer who can put this thing together for us. I know of such a place who could and would be willing to take it on. We would just need to provide articles, photos, and the artwork and ads.
4. The Guitarmaker Magazine is a fine publication, when we get it. Without it, the organization has no face.
5. What else can we do to help get things back on course?

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

    I agree there are some problems with ASIA but I am still a member and will be for a while. The symposium is close to me and I will surely be there this year. The magazine is also written by donated articles from its members. Feel free to write one and send it in.
    I know it is a pretty much volunteer organization and the board will be meeting after the symposium. I know I will be there
John Hall

I am a member and will continue to subscribe until they get it worked out. I suspect that in time this will get fixed.

One thing I think that might be helpful is to bring down the quality of the physical magazine to something akin to AL. That is a fine publication, and I don't need color photos and glossy covers. It is the information I crave.

I think that could save money and perhaps allow more to be shifted into content management, editing, and production.

Has anyone invited any of the board members here for this conversation? That might be helpful.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

I agree with BP
The GAL magazine is not as slick as the ASIA publication, but they come out every quarter like clockwork. Even though I had rather belong to ASIA because of their emphasis on guitars as opposed to the GAL publication which takes a more general approach to the Lutherie business, the fact that GAL is dependable trumps every other consideration.
The quality of the articles in Both GAL and ASIA are about the same but I bet it takes less money to publish GAL
I was planning to joint ASIA and now am a little unsure.

Maybe there is just too much centralized effort and loading on volunteers until they give up due to workload?

If there were small groups of volunteers who would be responsible for various efforts of the organization burnout would be less likely.

I bet there are enough luthiers who frequent the OLF to put together a quality magazine on a quarterly basis. Plus it doesn't have to be rocket science either, and outsourcing the printing and mailing seems reasonable.

For me, being a member of two professional luthier groups was expensive, so I always paid up GAL dues (4 yrs.) until last year, I missed. I've yet to join ASIA though I've wanted too.

Now with my lutherie beginning to take off, it seems reasonable to belong to both. I bet if they asked they'd get more free help than they'd know what to do with.

OK Bruce
Lets start a new organization with a new magazine. The OLM. We can publish quarterly and decentralize the responsibilities. We have lots of good ideas here. We could even be a clearing house for all the smaller organizations with reporters from LINT and other luthier groups who probably belong to OLF now, reporting on the doings of their smaller groups.
You could be editor in chief.

Folks,

     Sylvain is correct regarding our management difficulties and, as was his own experience during his tenure on the board, instituting change is, and has always been, tough and slow going.

     As one of the "new guys" on the board, I felt it was my duty to accept the position with an open mind, putting asside any and all negative input I had received from previous board members or outside sources regarding personal disputes, differing management styles, etc., however, all of these issues were discussed at our first meeting last June. In that meeting, agreements were entered into, promises were made and, an opportunity had to be provided for the association's management to collect itself and regroup. Apparently, we were not as successful as we would have liked to have been.

     Personally, I believe in the association and it's goals. I believe that the issues we have CAN be corrected and that the association can be made even stronger than it has ever been however, that effort will require the continued patient support of the membership, (yes funding is important) and, it will require more participation from the membership as well. That participation might be in the form of writing articles for GUITARMAKER, which are always sorely needed or, it might be as simple as carrying discussions like this one over to the ASIA forum where members can voice their indignance directly to the board and the Executive Director.

     You have questions and concerns, and rightfully so but, the board needs to be directly aware of the membership's view in order to better serve, and act in the association's best interests. Frankly, I just found this fourm a few weeks ago, (sorry Lance!), and, this particular discussion had to be brought to my attention specifically - (Thank you Brock!) - so that I could respond here.

     I, for one, am committed to turning this thing around and, there is similar committment throughout the board. All I, (we), ask is that those of you who are members - continue your membership and, those of you who haven't renewed - please renew. If you've never been a member, or haven't been for some time - please join for, without a viable membership, no organization can continue, much less succeed in it's mission.

     In return, I can only promise that I will do everything I know how to do to make this organization succeed and grow. A lot of proposals and action items are being discussed as I write this and, I feel that we're about to make some much needed progress.

     Give me, and the rest of the board, your feedback. You are the membership. Without you folks, our positions are pointless.

     Bill

Brief edit:

     A lot of great ideas have been experssed here - In fact, decentralization of responsibilities and smaller working groups are one of the concepts already being discussed. I, (we), need this input guys. Talk to me, (us), rather than only amongst yourselves - Please.Bill Moll38401.4812615741

I rather like the variety in American Lutherie, it makes for good reading and keeps horizons broad. Its definitely better than having an entire issue devoted to mandolins, if you're not interested in them... I am planning on joining ASIA this year though. I don't imagine putting out magazines based on guitar making is anywhere near easy.

Regards,
Joshua French

_________________
Instagram: @jfrenchluthier
Web: https://www.jfrenchguitars.com/

While I thank you John for your kind remarks, we all know that you, being an educator, are much better suited for the job. Therefore, I would like to nominate John Kinnaird as Director of the Official Luthier's Forum Magazine.

P. S. Not a bad idea. I've been involved in many volunteer projects and it's easy to get used and abused. Professional organizations can be professional without being all paid positions.

Kind of like running the forum. Lance did it for fun. Now it's becoming work and he's having to get help and donations for auctions plus sponsors too which in the future will be money not trade in kind.

A perpetual volunteering can become a rut and the joy of service soon wane, so a paid central administration with lots of serving small groups seems to be ideal.

Coaching a baseball team, at least I know that my duties end with the passing of the ten week season. What we won't do for our kids.

But now guitarmaking, that's either a hobby or profession that I have lots of interest in promoting. And being a student, even at this forum, is enlightening. I have seen seasoned veterans, take notice of a new wrinkle or twist someone comes up with and run with it. Pretty incredible.

So, even this forum gains traction as a lutherie training ground much the same as a professional organization. Before my ol' Pop passed away last year I needed to learn how to tune up the Model T for one last parade.

At Aaoogha.com a forum like this walked me through what I needed to add to my VW repertoire and become an antique mechanic. That baby fired off like it was raring to go and hadn't started in three years.

So, what's the answer, I don't know. But for those in the battle, it's not easy and I lend them my applause. Looks like now they need something more, like a hand. I'm going to go re-up my membership in GAL, and for the first time join ASIA, even if I have to go sell something. I sometimes hate being self-unemployed.

My KATV Channel 7 interview is tomorrow and the good news is, "I'm toting all new Cedar Creek Cases for my babies!" My son is going along and will perform at least one song.

Well, I too will go and renew my membership asap.
Personally, I love the full-color magazine. I found it to have a level of class that American Lutherie lacks in that regard (not a content issue - just appearance).

Personally, I rather like the theme-based issues. The Mandolin one was really good, even though I don't play or make them. The OM issue was fantastic, as well as the Repair issue. They still had other content in them besides the featured articles, but I guess we need to write stuff if they need articles. I plan on doing one for ASIA about my binding jig, and in fact, that's the reason why I have such a lengthy article on my website about it. Eventually it will be an ASIA article.

Thanks for dropping in Bill! Haven't chatted with you in awhile. Are you still using KTM-9?

Don Williams

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

I joined two years ago and at the time bought a bunch of back issues, but to be honest Asia has done nothing for me at all since that time, I've only gotten a couple of magazines, no letters, no information so I paid for some very expensive magazines. Because I'm building like crazy for Healdsburg I don't have the time to worry about it, in fact I find online resources like the OLF to a much much richer experience and I learn a lot more information.

Lance can attest that I have happily helped support this forum (in fact I am under orders by my other half to stay out of the auctions), but until Asia can sort out their problems my money could be spent on building guitars and supporting places like the OLF. If people like Bill can get in there and fix it then all the better I'll join back up, but until I see movement I'm steering clear of them.

-Paul-

_________________
-Paul-

Patriot Guitars

I've been a member for three years. The symposium in 2003 was excellent and I learned alot. I also met Pete, Vivian, Steve Sodaryk, John Osthoff, the infamous Ellie, and several others who have helped me.

I've done my part for Guitarmaker as well by writing an article. Seeing your name in print is a rush and I highly recommend it. The article was on building mandolins and since it was published I've gotten a couple of referals from luthiers who don't make mandolins. So writing an article can be helpful to your carreer. In addition to the referals, I've shown the article to some potential customers and it gave them the impression that I was legitimate.

I don't prefer one journal over the other. I read both from cover to cover. Frankly, I'm amazed that Guitarmaker gets done at all considering it is a part time job for everyone involved. Remember, Rick Davis builds guitars too. (And very nice ones, I might add). I know Deb Suran gave up her building carreer to run MIMF. I have heard that the Olsons don't build any more and dedicate themselves to running the GAL. These things take a lot of work and it is the members who have to do the work.

That is why I asked if it was a volunteer organization. As well intentioned as volunteers are (in any organization, not ASIA specifically) it usually requires and ENTIRELY different set of skills to run the trade organization thank it takes to WORK IN the trade.

This is no dis on anyone involved. I have certainly been there myself, volunteered for too much, then kicked myself as a result of it. These things can turn into huge time sinkholes and with volunteers they need to learn the ropes.... and just as they begin to figure everything out (and have made most of the newbie mistakes) they can't justify the time requirement and "retire".   A new crop of enthusiastic people volunteer and the process begins a new.

Again, no disrespect to anyone is intended. This just seems to be the curse of volunteer organizations. I am not being a cynic. But this has been my experience.

Preserving continuity would seem to be a key element of making these groups work for the long term. If not of personnell, then definitely of knowledge and process.

The only thing I can say about this is that I, for one, will continue to pay my dues to ASIA and GAL into the forseeable future. I think that they are valuable to the community regardles if they presently a little disfunctional. That will pass (hopefully) and with people like Bill Moll and some of the other board members I feel confidant that they will do their best.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Thanks Don, for the welcome but, I've never used KTM-9. I'm still a nitro-boy. Some evenings I just go into the lacquer room, sit down by an open 5 gal. can, and, well, the rest is a little foggy...

I Thank you guys for your support and, offer my apologies to those who feel their money was not well spent. We're determined to fix that, and hopefully change your minds.

The suggestions I'm reading here are all good ones - some differing viewpoints about the magazine and Symposium but that's to be expected - we certainly can't please everyone though, we'll make an effort to.

I'm available by private e-mail too, if anyone has any complaints or suggestions they don't want to share too openly. I want your feedback.

Thanks again.

Bill

I went ahead and renewed my membership. Even though I'm very
skeptical I, as well as many here I can assume, understand being
overextended on dates, and expectations. It is easy to be too optimistic
for reality.

Bill,

I'll gladly write and article or two if that will help. Let us know what topics
will be covered, and I'll see if I know anything about it.

_________________
John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

Thanks John, for your renewal and for the offer. Those are two of the primary things we need folks to do however, I'd suggest you write about a topic YOU feel you're well qualified for. Something you feel passionate about. If we can establish a good sized file of articles, tutorials, reviews, etc., we'll figure out how and where to fit them into the magazine - that won't be a problem.

Also, since _I'm_ the one asking to be deluged with all of this written material, please get it to me personally via e-mail. The Executive Director's job is already a full one and, Since I've decided to do this bit of pre-editorial recon on my own, I deserve whatever pain I incur.

I just realized my e-mail doesn't show up in my posts - is there a procedure or should I simply post it?Bill Moll38401.7055324074

I think I understand your disappointment with ASIA's publication, or lack
thereof.

ASIA is more than just a magazine, with services such as a Web site,
online discussion forum, and national Symposium, all of which are
produced and maintained by your friends who build and repair stringed
instruments, and who receive no monetary compensation at all for their
efforts. Members who write for the magazine are not paid for
photography, articles, or expenses. As my part of the organization, I
personally host and maintain the Members Photo Gallery, moderate the
online discussion forum, contribute to the magazine, help organize and
run the Symposia, and do a fair bit of member communication.

As an all volunteer association of luthiers, ASIA has continued to suffer
from being lead by "beginners" such as myself, Dan Erlewine, Sylvan
Wells, Bill Moll and others. While we have decades of experience in the
craft of lutherie, we're stretching pretty hard to manage to run an
organization. Those before us who put in time and effort run ASIA
eventually suffered "burnout" and have been replaced by new volunteers.
That's pretty much the way things have to work in a membership driven
volunteer organization. Other publications, such as American Lutherie
are run as businesses, and have the continuity of management,
ownership, etc.

Until recently, ASIA has had only one paid position, that of magazine
editor Rick Davis, who has also (as an unpaid volunteer) done the bulk of
work actually producing the Symposia. We now pay a modest amount to
our new Membership Coordinator, Nadine Norris.

So, there are reasons, if not valid excuses, for the recent publication of
the magazine to be, er, "sporadic." We believe that with our recent
reorganization of the Board of Directors, we have made a serious dent in
this problem. In fact, since the reorganization, the magazine has been on
a better track, with three issues in as many quarters of 2004.
Unfortunately, the final issue didn’t make it into the mail until February of
2005.

ASIA is asking not to be compared to other magazine subscriptions, but
to other professional trade organizations. The magazine is a journal of
the organization and depends on membership not only for funding, but
also for input of material from members who would share their craft,
teach others and increase the general level of competency in the world of
lutherie.

_________________
Cheers,

Frank Ford

FRETS.COM
HomeShopTech
FRETS.NET

Welcome Frank, and I am glad you responded to this post. I take issue
with just one point, namely that in the calendar year 2003 we got three
magazines. In fact we got three magazines BUT the first one (Jan 2004)
was actually the fourth of 2002. Since that is true the membership really
only got two magazines this 2003 calendar year. You and I have
discussed that point and decided to let it ride at the time.
ASIA is not in trouble because of lack of money. I was the membership
chairman and handled the money through April of 2004. There was more
than enough funds for four magazines. If anyone wants more specifics
on the money I would suggest an audited accounting as required by law.
Folks, I am not saying to NOT support ASIA. I want you to support them. I
love the organization and would hate to see it fall apart. BUT, and this is a
large BUT, it just is not right to take money, represent one thing and do
another. Ask yourself if you feel the membership dues you have paid over
the last, say three years, was worth what you got from it? If it was, so be
it. IF NOT.....

_________________
Sylvan
http://www.wellsguitars.com

Sheeeeze,

If you join ASIA with the “what will I get out it” attitude… don’t bother, that is not the spirit of the organization. I would like to see 4 magazines a year but that's not what I pay my dues for.   I pay my dues to ASIA (and the GAL) to help further the craft. The people in the origination are dedicated to that. Holy smokes, just take a look at Frank Ford’s site. (By the way how many of you have bought Frank’s website on CD????)

Now that we are all spoiled by the instant (and free) info of the internet it may seem easy to dismiss the organization that brings us a couple of sporadic journals per year. Go to a symposium and you will see that ASIA is so much more than a magazine. If you were lucky enough to sit in the Chapel as The Zeilder guitar project was being presented you may be able to understand. It is about the network…. and I don’t mean the @#$ internet, I am talking about people!

Ok I will jump off my high horse and admit that I have not had much time as of late to “give back” to the guitar community. No I don’t have 600+ postings on this site. I only have submitted one article (last year) to ASIA, organized one NEL meeting, and met with some local guys from time to time. Hopefully I will be able to supply some more articles and be able to “give back” in other ways, but for now I will pay my dues …. and not complain.