Official Luthiers Forum!

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Why don't they just get it over with and put EVERYTHING on the Cites list.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

So then, does that mean it will be impossible to get coco sets, or merely more difficult?
For instance, would I, in Canada , be able to order coco from Madinter, or do I need to find someone within Canafa?

Appendix 2 means you have to get a special license each time you want to harvest a tree and then sell a log, board, or veneer to some other country. That means that sets cutfor guitar are going to be expensive, especially for the best material.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

What schedule is braz on?

Appendix 1 and illegal to trade.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

I can't imagine anyone being surprised by this news.

So schedule 2 woods will still be available, just more expensive?

More money to regulators and the people that write regulations. Less money for us. Just like everything else.

It could also mean that the woods (or trees) concerned have now become scarcer and are in further danger of becoming extinct, at least on a commercial basis. Let's face it, our Guitars aren't quite as important as the survival of the trees themselves. Unless of course you firmly believe that man is incapable of plundering nature to the point where species become extinct.

It is a very complicated issue and there are no easy answers or solutions. The alternative is to have zero restrictions and I'm pretty sure that outcome won't be a good one either. At least placing a wood on Cites might focus a few minds. That is the consequence it had for myself. I began to look at the alternatives and began to question the belief that one could only make a great Guitar out of Brazilian Rosewood and an ebony fretboard. In fact the best sounding Guitar that I've made over the last 3 or 4 years used Cherry Back/Sides with an Oak fretboard. I've also done a number of blind listening tests. Some with my own Guitars and some using other makers. The range of woods has been wide, probably 6 or 7 different Back/Side sets. It just might surprise some how difficult it is to pick out that Brazilian Rosewood Guitar from one made of Maple. It's obvious when you have your eyes open, not so when you are blindfolded. I'm not doing these test alone either.

The concern is placing things on CITES would only encourage poaching, since the higher price of the wood means that it is more lucrative to poach them.

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

As Michael.N. says, what would be the result if there were no resctrictions?
Some areas have already been over logged illegally (and legally) before Cites.
At least it makes people think about the problem, and (hopefully) slows it down -
"Better to light a single candle than curse the darkness"

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

FWIW for the past few years my suppliers have been telling me that cocobolo is being cut and sold at an alarming rate. Whether CITES is the solution or not I do not know, but it sounds like something definitely needs to be done to slow things down.

But honestly I won't really work on cocobolo without a hefty upcharge. I have enough problem with dust control in my shop (no matter what I do dust goes everywhere, and I can't really find good dust control solutions that work) and the poisonous nature of cocobolo means I don't really want to gamble with my health.

I don't know what can be done, no regulation is bad but too much regulation means the wood will have a higher value and that makes poaching more attractive.

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

I know, if it weren't for CITES God help the elephants and other creatures.

It just seems to me though that even woods that aren't close to being extinct are being put on CITES.

It's as if officials are saying, Let's see. What's selling good lately...Oh look! there's an abundance of Cocobolo! Let's put THAT one on the list!"

I mean, is Pink Ivory on CITES?

No, and it's rarer than diamonds! There's not enough in trade to warrant CITES tax scrutiny, since there wouldn't be much money raised.

Which is rarest, Pink Ivory or Cocobolo?!

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Old growth, shmold growth!

Today, per a wood supplier, the cost of Cocobolo going on the CITESII list will have little affect on the price compared to China sucking up all the lumber worldwide at an alarming rate. In 2012 China imported 305 of all lumber exported worldwide. Another 10% can be added to this figure for illegal logging (about 200,000 shipping containers). Ethics in this Far East country have always been a little suspect. Now we know!!

305 what, logs?

I know it's not 305% 'cuz that would be impossible.

And I'm sure the price will go up considerably as well. As a matter of fact, there's a wood seller warning about that on his website. It's almost as if HE can't wait either, LOL!

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Old growth, shmold growth!

30% becomes 305 if your finger slips off the caps key.

Ah.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

Is it just me or does it seem like guitar builders are being targeted.

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James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee

It's you.

They are specifically targeting James W B?

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

Sorry for not proofreading my post. It is 30% of all imported lumber goes to China. Another fact about China. They look the other way on illegal imports, but have a very strict policy when it comes to using their own forests. Not to long ago they went a a tree planting campaign to reforest parts of China. It is illegal to do any clear cutting of any forest in China. Penalties are severe!!! But deforesting the rest of the world. No problem.

Yeah.
BTW here's a river in Indonesia that 500 factories dump $h!t into daily. Next time someone tells you there's a garbage patch floating in the pacific ocean and tries to tell you it's OUR fault, remind them that THIS river flows to the ocean, OUR garbage gets buried under land fills and they become golf courses.

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Old growth, shmold growth!