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Hello, new to this forum and luthiery. I am building a guitar based off a 335 design except it will be a solid body. But I want it to look like a 335 minus the F holes but with the arching. I'm trying to figure out the best way to rout for the binding. Once top and back are arched, I can't run a router on it because it won't sit flat on the surface. But I'm not sure it would work well to run the routing before I arch, which would require that i arch close to the already glued in binding and sand down to the binding when i got close. Any suggestions on the best way to do this? I hope this was clear, kinda hard to explain. Thanks for your help!

Ben

Core - eastern maple
Sides, back and neck - black limba
Top - redwood
Binding - cocobolo

Welcome to the forum!
i have been contemplating this myself. I build carved top set necks mostly, and I don't have a binding routing jig or anything like that. Mind you, I have not tried this method yet, but...
I route the top carve using increasingly smaller templates for each ledge of the top carve. I'm thinking of routing the binding channel first, then using the templates to route the carve.
In other words, assuming the final depth of the top carve is 1/4", then I would use the binder routing bit to route a half inch tall binding channel(assuming 1/4" tall binding), and then route the top carve with the templates, which should leave me with a 1/4" binding channel all around the top of the guitar.
As I said, I haven't tried this yet, but I think it will work.
Alternatively, a gramill and chisel could be used to cut the binding channel after the carve is completed.

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

Ok I'm trying to wrap this around my mind. Are you using a router to do the arching? When you say, "final depth of top carve" are you refering to the difference from the thickest part of the top to the top of the binding?

Hmmmmm, what if I Arched the top (before it is glued to core, so I still have a flat side to work with) then used a router table with no fence and a bit with a bearing that only allowed a set depth, with a bit that is 1/4" tall to match binding height. Then glued binding to top plate, sanded flat and then glued to core? Does that make sense?

Yes to all of that.

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

If you're talking about flipping the top over
and working from the other side, I wouldn't want to try that. You'd have to find a way to make the top sit flat and still while resting on the arch.
Before I did that, I'd get a grammil and do it by hand, which is probably what I'll end up doing anyway.

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

There are several binding cutter jigs available that will help you do it right the first time. Check out the ones sold by some of our advertisers, I think that the forum has some plans available as well.

Al

If you're talking about flipping the top over
and working from the other side, I wouldn't want to try that. You'd have to find a way to make the top sit flat and still while resting on the arch.
Before I did that, I'd get a grammil and do it by hand, which is probably what I'll end up doing anyway.[/quote]


I was more thinking of running the flat side down on router table. I'm looking for this grammil tool, is it possibly called another name? I'm having a hard time finding it. Thank you

I will check those out as well. Thank you. I should probably stop trying to reinvent the wheel. : )

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

Seems like a worthwhile tool

Someone may have already pointed this out, but the method demonstrated in this video will serve you well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIdrOJPfh_A

Acoustic guitars have the exact same issue that you describe because the top, and particularly the back, are not flat surfaces.

As a side note, have you considered making the guitar hollow? An ES335 sized guitar that is solid body will be quite hefty.

I don't make 335s, but I dio build their little brother the 336, this size of body is generally found to be more comfortable to play by the majority of players, I believe a sold body 335 size guitar would be almost unplayable for most players. The 336 is a chambered solid body with a carved top and back this makes it both lighter and more comfortable to play. I bind both the top and the back but cut the binding channels before I carve the top and back. I know the profile I'm going to shape to, so I make an allowance for iit when cutting the channels. For instance If I want to use a 6mm binding and I'm going to carve the top down 4mm at the edge then I'll cut the binding channel 10mm deep, I can then lay in a piece of binding and mark the channel to the depth that I'm going to carve to.

Cutting the channels on a flat plate is far easier to do than after the plate has been shaped, as the radius over short distances of the carving is far greater than it is on my acoustics.







Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Coolest one!!! Hand made, no routers, no Fox benders, jesus! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHpQLbiaqkA

The binding router jig, 3 pages of Luthiers Forum viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=37656

It won't be completely hollow, but I will be routing out as much of the maple as I can to reduce the weight. Thanks for the vid that's an interesting set up.

WOW! Your pics are stunning. That guitar is beautiful. I will will look into your method as well I like what you are saying. As far as the solid/hollow debate I will be routing away as much weight as I can in the core. So, I guess it won't be completely solid but chambered in some way. Thank you.

That is cool I've looked into the gramil method a little I'm somewhat scared of it, mostly because I'm not sure of my patience . : ). I'll look into that thread as well. Thanks Radz

I think the gramil is the way to go for 3 reasons.
1-Do it by hand first, so you know how it was done in the old days,
and appreciate the newer methods.
2- You don't want to spend a lot of money on something you might use,
only once.
3- It's good idea to score the binding ledge with a gramil before routing,
so if ya get a router holder thingamabob,
it'll still be usefulllll!!!!!!!1
I,ve bound about 10 guitars, and still don't have a router holder slider thingee.
I've found with a gramil set up for the top cut,
and a Sloane style cutter set up for the side cut nice,
so you don't have to change the two.
Alan

No THAT'S what a Luthier should know how to do!
........I wish I could do that.
Could you post some pics of your Gramil & Sloane style cutter set up?

Okay, I will tomorrow!
A.

The one on the right is the
sloane purfling cutter.
On da left is the gramil.
A
Oh, windows computer.
Had a Mac before, and don't know how to reduce the size.
Send me a personal message, with yer e-mail,
and I will send pic.
A

I think I will pick up one of those gramils. Thanks for all the advice everyone. I'm sure I will be back for some more.

A router mounted under the table with a doughnut. The body rides on the edge of the doughnut while the cutter cuts the ledge. The router has a bearing guided bit. Use your knuckles to keep the body level. It takes a bit of practice but works well.

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Ken