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I have been working on this Telecaster neck. It's an Allparts replacement Neck. I've had the thing forever. When I first put it on the guitar, it had some buzzing around the 5th fret, but not the 6th. Classic high fret, right? I took it to a luthier and he did a bit of quick leveling with a file, strung it back up to tension and set it up. It was a little better. I stopped using that neck on my guitar because I just couldn't handle the buzzing.

I've since jumped in, feet first, to the world of building/repair. I recently made a couple attempts at leveling the frets using an assortment of techniques including my own home-built "Erlewine-ish" neck jig.

After doing a few passes with a radius beam, I noticed that no matter what I did, I was taking way too much material off of the bass side near the nut. Then I notice that the frets on the treble side near the body are way higher than they should be, given the amount of leveling that's been done on these things. The neck itself doesn't look twisted. I think the frets up there were just too high and and I never caught it. Or maybe it was twisted but just not enough to see with the naked eye? I thought a steel Radius beam was supposed to remove twists, not make them worse. I tried making the high frets "fall away" a bit. But then I would take a swipe or two with my radius beam and it would immediately take material off of the bass side near the nut. Obviously, I'm going to have to refret this thing. Even if it's only a partial.

My question is this. How do I spot that sort of thing before I go screwing everything up again? And how do I know when enough is enough when it comes to smoothing out a problem area? Are there any tools/techniques for measuring the exact height of a fret?

Thanks.

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"I'm not going to say that perfection has never been achieved. However, if it has, it probably went unnoticed due to it's lack of character."

I don't know what could be causing the bass side to be taken off more than the treble side without being able to look at your neck, but if you hold it up to your eye and sight down it lengthwise you should be able to see if it's twisted. If I had one buzzy fret I wouldn't try and level all the frets, I'd take a flat needle file and just work on the problem fret, with the strings on. Just play the string, moving up and down until you locate the offending fret and run the file underneath it taking a little off at a time. You can check your progress by playing the note, that's the beauty of leaving the strings on. Just keep going until the buzz disappears and be careful of the fret board. After you get it nice you can go back and polish it back up to get rid of any burrs or scratches.

When I did my fret board I had a compound radius so I couldn't use a curved beam sander. I used a straight beam and ran it in line with the imagined axis of the conical shape that a compound radius has. I just went until I had knocked the tops off of all the frets. Then I took a black sharpie and ran it across the top of every fret. From there you take a fret file and file each one down until there is a tiny sliver of sharpie left, which ensures that the tops of the frets are all level to each other. Then you polish them till they sparkle and you're all set.

I'd say if the neck isn't twisted you may want to check your technique and modify it somehow. Maybe you're putting more pressure on one side than the other or maybe the position of the sanding beam is off-center. Does the sanding beam perfectly match the radius of the neck?

The best advice I could give is take your time and check your progress frequently. Because I used a flat beam sander whose width was narrower than the fret board I could see exactly how much I was taking off and where as I was passing it across the neck. Also, I just flattened my neck with the truss rod and checked it across a level before I did my fret work, it worked fine. I don't have any experience with an Erliwine style jig but I also wouldn't rule out that the jig may be inducing a twist.

As far as measure a fret's height, if you have a digital caliper you can set the tail end of it on the fret and extend the thin gauge down to the fret board.

first thing i'd do before levelling is to make sure the frets are seated properly against the fretboard.....it is possible they weren't tapped or pressed in properly in the first place...?

Thanks John. I appreciate your advice. I do try to keep the beam straight as I learned that with doing the fretboard itself. What's strange to me is that my fret rocker still indicates that my 6th fret is high. Not sure how that could be after all that leveling. Maybe I didn't have the neck as straight as I thought. After thinking on it a while, I now wonder if the fretboard has a hump above the 5th fret area. I was thinking that my fretboard was starting it's fallaway at the 12th fret when I initially evaluated it. In retrospect, I may have had too much tension on the rod causing the beam to not touch all the frets evenly.

I don't know...

I'll have to try that spot leveling technique you described sometime.

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"I'm not going to say that perfection has never been achieved. However, if it has, it probably went unnoticed due to it's lack of character."

I guess anything is possible. It's an Allparts neck. I would think a company like that would have a press or a caul or something other than just a hammer.

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"I'm not going to say that perfection has never been achieved. However, if it has, it probably went unnoticed due to it's lack of character."

Use a good straight edge and figure out if the neck is straight, humped, whatever. Doing fretwork without a straight edge is working blind.

Ditto on the straight edge. I have both a typical straight edge and the one with notches to clear frets (to check the level of the finger board itself after installing frets). Also, Aaron, did I read correctly that you are using a radiused beam/caul to level frets?

If you're leveling with a radiused beam you need to be very careful that each stroke is straight and centered. If the radiused beam wanders sideways or twists with your wrist with each stroke you will get more material removed on that side or edge of the fretboard or frets. This sounds to me like what is going on here.
To avoid this when using a radius block to radius a fretboard, this is what I do.



The fretboard and radius block is bordered on both sides to ensure the block moves only in a straight line. It's near impossible for me to do this freehanded, IME.
The same would hold true when leveling frets. MHO.

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

Aaron, try this: Take a flat blade screw driver and press straight down on the end of that offending sixth fret. See if it moves down into the slot when you do that. If it does, then you obviously have a loose fret end. It's not uncommon for this to happen. If that's what you've got, then it would press down while the beam is riding over it, and then pop right back up again when you think you've got everything leveled. That is one plausible explanation for your problem, and it has happened to me. Now, if you try this test and the fret end moves down, put a tiny drop of watery CA glue under the end of the fret and quickly press it down and hold it with your screwdriver. Hold it about 30-60 seconds. Then level only that fret, as needed.

If your frets are all tightly seated, I'm sorry to say I don't know what else to suggest.
Patrick

Genius! I'm makin me one of these!!!!! Why didn't I think of this before? That is gonna be a super handy little jig

Genius! I'm makin me one of these!!!!! Why didn't I think of this before? That is gonna be a super handy little jig[/quote]

All you need are a couple of straight 1x4s, screws and a Workmate. That's all there is. I normally rout a truss rod slot the same way, although I've built a jig for that now.
I thought about building a jig for this task, but this way is so dead simple I can't justify the time. Takes about 3 minutes or less to set up.

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

All you need are a couple of straight 1x4s, screws and a Workmate. That's all there is. I normally rout a truss rod slot the same way, although I've built a jig for that now.
I thought about building a jig for this task, but this way is so dead simple I can't justify the time. Takes about 3 minutes or less to set up.[/quote]

Thanks Mike!
I feel like a dummy for not thinking of this.
I'm making more and more jigs and templates these days.
Funny, I'll spend an hour making a jig for a five-second cut. But it's a really good cut!
Regards,
Dan

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wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah

You're welcome!


Depends how critical the task. The above works perfectly for radiusing the fretboard, but I built a jig for the truss rod slot, which I was doing this way as well. I'm not at all against jigs or templates. They have their place, and I'd be lost without them, but when I find something so simple that works so well, why change it? A jig would not do the job better, or save me one second at this task.
That's how I look at it. Ajig either has to offer me speed or accuracy, or it's not worth my time.

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

Good advice here.
One thing that is handy to know is,
if you have a high fret,
locate it with a long straight edge,
see the high one,
then use a 4" long one,
because it will rock over the high fret.
Then carefully level the one high fret.

Thanks to everyone for your replies. Yeah... I think it was my technique after all. I have to try to 2x4 method next time.

It's not a loose fret. I checked that first. I didn't even think about the beam pushing it down though. That's very good to know!

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"I'm not going to say that perfection has never been achieved. However, if it has, it probably went unnoticed due to it's lack of character."

I think trying to level frets with a radiused beam is asking for trouble. I know some folks who can do it properly but there are potential problems that I won't go into here. Much better to use a flat beam as John Sonksen described.

Yep. One of the biggest problems is that people think that if the radiused beam wanders side to side or twists it won't be a problem because the radius is constant. But as the beam moves around or twists it changes where the pressure is applied, digging in more in some areas and less in others. Just because the beam is radiused doesn't remove the need for precision or accuracy in it's use. There's no free lunch, whatever the method.

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

That's what I kinda figured out. Although, I've had good luck with it mostly.

The straight beam scares me because... Well... Doesn't it make things flat?

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"I'm not going to say that perfection has never been achieved. However, if it has, it probably went unnoticed due to it's lack of character."

No, you sweep it side to side as you stoke it up and down the fretboard. It is much, much, easier than using a radiused beam. Trust me here and try it.

Ok. So, I tried the straight beam. It will take some getting used to for sure. It seems like it's gonna work well though.

Question - Does anyone here have a good method for making sure you don't take more off the treble side than the bass side (vice versa)? With the straight beam, you could theoretically grind one side down to nothing while not even touching the other. I suspect this is going on with a neck I'm working on now. The only thing I can think is to use a small straight edge (I use a fret rocker) and some feeler gauges to measure fret height in various areas to make sure what I'm removing is consistent. Anyone else do this or is there a better way?

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"I'm not going to say that perfection has never been achieved. However, if it has, it probably went unnoticed due to it's lack of character."

It's not that hard to do. Use black marker on the tops of all the frets. Start at one side of the fretboard(I start on the bass side), and move the flat beam up the fretboard from highest fret to lowest. I use an old plane body, but you can use anything that's really flat. Don't use a lot of pressure. Let the abrasive do the work. Use smooth, slow strokes. After your first stroke move the beam over a bit, and do it again. Repeat until you reach the other end of the fretboard. Do this over and over until every fret top has a nice, shiney strip of metal across it where the marker has been removed. You're level. Proceed to crowning, etc.
One other thing to note is that since your frets are not level to start out with the amount of material removed will be more or less on each fret. You won't be removing the same amount of material from each fret. Some will require more metal to be removed, some less. This does not mean your fret leveling is uneven.
Check results thoroughly with a good straightedge and fret rocker. Take your time, and give it some "love".
One other thing that may have already been mentioned is that if you are new to installing frets(and even if you're not) you need to pay particular attention to the frets ends. Make certain they are fully seated, and not loose, BEFORE LEVELING. If they are loose, glue them down tight. If you level the frets with the ends loose they'll move down when the beam passes over them, then pop back up after you've strung it up, and you'll never get a good action over the strings. I use magnification as I go over each fret end, pushing down on them while looking with magnification to see if they move even the slightest bit. IMHO, naked eyes are not enough to consistently catch this. YMMV.

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

Thanks. That's great info. I suppose it's common sense. Sometimes it just helps to get confirmation on what you already figured.

I'm leveling out a neck right now. I've leveled and crowned it 3 times and each time I do, it's still not perfect. The first fret is low so I'll probably replace that at some point. The other problem is somewhere around the 8th or 9th fret I'm getting buzz only on the G & D strings. It's very hard to tell if it's a high fret or a low fret, if that makes any sense. I suppose rather than replace that first fret, I need to just do another delicate pass with the beam. I will say that the straight beam method is the best I've tried so far. I probably just didn't get everything.

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"I'm not going to say that perfection has never been achieved. However, if it has, it probably went unnoticed due to it's lack of character."

It's difficult to diagnose from a distance, but if you've leveled and crowned it 3 times, I'm inclined to ask how low you're trying to go. No matter how level your frets, there are realistic limits.
Also, since you say you're still getting buzz at the 8th or 9th fret, I'm inclined to suspect a possibility you might need a little more relief.
I would also check the usual; tuners, saddles, etc, for rattles.
Also, pay attention to how you crown the frets as well. Slow, smooth and steady is the way there, as well. Remember, be methodical. This is precision work. Carelessness here can ruin all your careful leveling earlier.
Pretty much the best I can do for you.

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

When I say I've leveled and crowned three times, I should also say that I don't think I went far enough any one of those times. I was probably afraid of going too far. Which is probably why I'm still not there. I used high wire to begin with. I still have roughly somewhere around .041-.043 worth of crown left. Some wire isn't even that tall to begin with. I purposely got the tall stuff because I anticipated going through a bit of trial and error. This particular guitar is the first one I ever built a neck for. Consequently, the first fret work I ever did. It's my "experimental" project.

As for crowning, I learned a lot about that through several fret jobs I did on other guitars & basses. The crowns on this one are ALOT better than they were because I finally understand the goal of it. I started to realize the importance of lighting while perform this task as well.

Anyway, I think what is happening is I'm now fixing things that I messed up in the first place. For instance, when I did the last leveling, I ended up taking more off of the bass side than the treble side at the nut and more off of the bass side at the heel. Somehow, it's way more level now. Obviously, I "leveled" a twist into my frets by using my radius beam.

I was just playing it for a while tonight and it's good enough to get by on a gig, if need be. I just want to get it perfect and not touch it again until it's necessary.

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"I'm not going to say that perfection has never been achieved. However, if it has, it probably went unnoticed due to it's lack of character."

Cool! You've just described what I went through the first 5-6 times I leveled frets. It's a learning thing. There's a guy on here with a signature line something like,"Good decisions come from experience, experience comes from bad decisions". It looks like you're sorting it out. Good deal.

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.