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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:41 am 
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First name: Chris
Last Name: Pile
City: Wichita
State: Kansas
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Buy some more wood, and start over.
Look at all you've learned so far.
It will go easier this time, I promise.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:06 am 
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Cocobolo
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Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 11:00 pm
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First name: John
Last Name: Sonksen
City: PORTLAND
State: Oregon
Zip/Postal Code: 97216-2013
Country: United States
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Status: Amateur
Dude, everybody deals with something like this. Maybe I'm wrong in my assessment, maybe it won't be a big deal. I'd sit on it for a couple of days. Don't throw it away and don't give up. Fixing your mistakes is part of building a guitar. Even if you had to do what I said that's a far simpler fix than what I had to do on my first guitar.

I was using an older router bit to rout the shape of my guitar to its template and everything was going ok if not a little loud, when part of my mahogany body decided it didn't like what I was doing. It broke off leaving a hole about 5/16" less than the outside dimension. The piece was so chunked that it wouldn't make a decent patch, so I first traced and made a copy of my template. Then I went around with a scribe and shrunk the outside dimension of it by 3/8". Then using a new bit, routed to that.

When I was done I hated the shape, far to pointy and too small overall. So I set about wrapping the whole outside with tiny flat sticks about 3/16" thick and varying in width so I could follow the curves on the outside of the guitar. Then I used polyester body filler to fill the gaps. Because I was doing this for the first time I glued my back cap on first, before I had wrapped the sides with my finished material which meant if have to not only bend curly maple for the first time, but bend it to two surfaces which would have been extra hard.

So, I decided to rout the overhanging portion of the back off, and while I was at it I glued the top on and routed its overhang off as well. The joint between the side and the faces would get binding so any discrepancy could be hidden. Anyways after a half dozen broken pieces and about 6 hours in front of an improperly ventilated propane torch, bending iron I finally got one side to bend to profile. It took another three to get the other side and consider my shop is 25 miles from my house one way which is enough to cost me $8 in gas, and endless window time to contemplate my failures.

It took me a month in real time because I could only go down on weekends. I thought about giving up but I knew I wouldn't forgive myself.

Finally I got it glued up and it was time to put my binding and purfling on. I routed my ledges, thought I was ok though I was thinking I may not have set my purfling deep enough as I hadn't carved the top yet. Sure enough I hadn't set the purfling deep enough and because I don't have very good light in my shop, I sanded right through the purfling. My four lines went to two and it did not look good. I thought about painting the lines back on at my sand-through's but it wouldn't have looked right. So now that I had a light carve on my top I had to build a special jig to locate my router off of the center, still flat part of the body. Then I routed the B&P back off and started over.

Here's how it looks today:
Image

Image

Thinking about the fix that I reccomended for you versus what I put myself through I would have loved to be in your position. I think you could do it in a few hours to be honest. Start by sizing the wood to width and thickness for the part you're going to replace. Lay it over the body making notes of you centerline and leaving it a little long to start. Trace some lines down either side of the blank and then cut to the inside of the line, (to the side where the pups would be). Then using a jointer, hand plane or edge sander, bring your two halves up to the line. You will probably have to get creative with your clamping, but after a few hours you can trim the piece close to length and profile it to match.

Yes you'll have to rout new holes for pups, trem and make a new neck pocket, but just think of it as good practice and lessons learned.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:09 am 
Nope, I've got the best solution to fix this thing. I'm going to buy some pickguard material and make a pickguard that covers the edges of the bridge cavity. I didn't want to have a pickguard at first, but I think this will fix everything. Instead of going to great lengths to fix my mistakes. I'll just cover them up. Problem solved.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:14 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Elikeatts wrote:
Nope, I've got the best solution to fix this thing. I'm going to buy some pickguard material and make a pickguard that covers the edges of the bridge cavity. I didn't want to have a pickguard at first, but I think this will fix everything. Instead of going to great lengths to fix my mistakes. I'll just cover them up. Problem solved.


That's the spirit.
After all,
it is just a guitar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:36 pm 
Hey guys,

I'm importing the pics to my computer right now. I'll post them tonight.

But first I have a question, for a san dimas it says the fingerboard has a compound radius of 12" to 16". What the heck does that mean? Which radius should I choose?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:05 pm 
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Koa
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First name: John
Last Name: coloccia
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Elikeatts wrote:
Hey guys,

I'm importing the pics to my computer right now. I'll post them tonight.

But first I have a question, for a san dimas it says the fingerboard has a compound radius of 12" to 16". What the heck does that mean? Which radius should I choose?


Boy, you just opened a can of worms. LOL. Let me ask you, what are you using for a bridge? I know this isn't really answering your question, but to some extend your bridge will determine what radius you use and if you can or can't (or even should) do a compound radius.

I'm sure someone with a bit more time will explain all the nuances very well, but it will help to know what kind of bridge you have so you can get some specific advice.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:34 pm 
John Coloccia wrote:
Elikeatts wrote:
Hey guys,

I'm importing the pics to my computer right now. I'll post them tonight.

But first I have a question, for a san dimas it says the fingerboard has a compound radius of 12" to 16". What the heck does that mean? Which radius should I choose?


Boy, you just opened a can of worms. LOL. Let me ask you, what are you using for a bridge? I know this isn't really answering your question, but to some extend your bridge will determine what radius you use and if you can or can't (or even should) do a compound radius.

I'm sure someone with a bit more time will explain all the nuances very well, but it will help to know what kind of bridge you have so you can get some specific advice.

Schaller Floyd Rose double locking tremolo bridge. Ordered it off of stewmac.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:44 pm 
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Cocobolo
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Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 11:00 pm
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First name: John
Last Name: Sonksen
City: PORTLAND
State: Oregon
Zip/Postal Code: 97216-2013
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
a compound radius neck has one radius at the nut, and another at the bridge end. So a 12 to 16 goes from having a 12" radius at the nut to a 16" radius at the bridge. The thinking is it's more comfortable to have a tighter radius at the end you play mostly chords and the fretboard flattens out as you go higher to accommodate playing solos. Some bridges have a set radius while others have adjustments built in, or un-notched saddles which you could set your own radius with to a certain degree.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:16 am 
John Sonksen wrote:
a compound radius neck has one radius at the nut, and another at the bridge end. So a 12 to 16 goes from having a 12" radius at the nut to a 16" radius at the bridge. The thinking is it's more comfortable to have a tighter radius at the end you play mostly chords and the fretboard flattens out as you go higher to accommodate playing solos. Some bridges have a set radius while others have adjustments built in, or un-notched saddles which you could set your own radius with to a certain degree.

Ok I understand this now. I can make radiused sanding blocks out of scrap wood. Should I use a 14" to blend the two radiuses? And what fret should I transition from one to the other?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:07 am 
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Cocobolo
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Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 11:00 pm
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First name: John
Last Name: Sonksen
City: PORTLAND
State: Oregon
Zip/Postal Code: 97216-2013
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
It's not something that happens at one fret or one point, the transition happens over the whole length of the fret board. I did mine by sanding a 10" radius at the nut and a 14" at the bridge end and then I used a homemade, long sanding block to join the two. You need to think of it as the surface of a cone, smoothly moving from the base(bridge) end to the tip of the cone (somewhere past the nut). My sanding block is 24" long, about 1 1/4" wide and it's made from Corian countertop material with a spine of the same stuff to make it rigid. I sanded in smooth, parallel strokes (parallel from the base to tip of the cone, not parallel to each other).

I wouldn't use a radiused sanding block because you'll likely just transfer that radius to the fret board. Some guys have elaborate rigs that use edge sanders or routers, but this seemed like the cheapest, easiest way for me to do it and since I'm not doing production runs anytime soon I couldn't justify building a rig to do it.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:51 am 
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Koa
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First name: John
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Personally, what I would do, is do a straight, 14" radius (I believe that bridge comes set to 14). The difference between 12" and 14" is minimal, and the advantages to a compound radius past 12" or 14" or so are dubious IN MY OPINION. A compound radius is far more useful on the old Fender necks that had about 9". You would seriously fret out doing bends on the upper frets, so a popular mod during refret was to put a compound radius on those necks from 9" to whatever. I see no problems with a straight 12", and if you just did a straight 14", I think you'd be very happy.

Again, just my opinion.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:56 am 
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Cocobolo
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Sorry some of the build went south for you. My first build turned out to be a disaster and I swore off building and yadda yadda, here it is 2 years and multiple builds later and I'm still going.
There's just tricks to the trade, and you pick them up with experience.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:31 pm 
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Koa
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I agree with John Coloccia. That's a very minimal difference. I think compound radiuses are useless anyway. Makes much more sense to have the playing field under the strings be straight (before you add string tension and truss rod relief). How bout the easiest route? I find it the most comfortable, a flat fretboard. Non-radiused. That's how I like em, and folks who've played mine so far like em. It might not be for everyone but it's perfect for me.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:15 pm 
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Cocobolo
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Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:05 pm
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Last Name: Goertzen
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How is the guitar coming? I do hope you haven't stopped, and that it is just the business of summer that keeps you away...

I think every one of us here would love to see you complete your guitar.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:57 pm 
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Regarding the compound radius.. I don't believe it was mentioned but I want to address a comment that was made. If we do 1/2 the fretboard at 12" radius and the other 1/2 at 16" and blend the two with a 14", this will NOT blend the radii. The 14" block flatten the top of the 12" section and chamfer the sides of the 16" section. It will just make trapezoids. It has to be done by a machine or proper fixture I think. And if it's not right, how will you level the frets? Same method? I think it's a big boy task and not worth the price of admission.

I've also heard that it's recommended to hit the fretboard with a radius block before a refret and this could be a challenge. I'd save this feature for another day. ;)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:40 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Compound radius is best done on a jig, but is relatively simple to do with a sanding block (do the ends a little) and mostly a straight sanding beam. The goal of a compound radius is 'simply' to have a flat path below each string rather than a flat path along/parallel to the center line, so all you need to do sand or plane until it's flat under each string and curved 'as you like it'. Levelling works the same way, including for frets.

This isn't as hard as it might seem or sound.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:26 pm 
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Compound radiuses are over rated. Just radius it, or keep it flat.

Wait, where'd he go?

The OP disappeared :o

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