Official Luthiers Forum!

So how do you guys cut the slot for a 5 way switch? I have tried a few different things, but don't like any of them so far. The last was to use my dremel with the precision routing base and a small bit. I had a straight edge for a guide on one side, but of course the bit caught the wood and jumped a bit, making things not so straight on the other side. I have 2 more to do soon, but am trying to find a better way, so if you guys have a cool way let me know.

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John Thiessen
http://www.iszacguitars.com

I sure wish I knew.. Drill press w/ mill bit & milling vise (cranks) is my best guess.

Drill the holes for the end and use a dremel with a spiral bit and a 'fence', remembering that 'routers go left' to make sure it sticks to said fence. If you want to make sure it doesn't wander at all, make a carriage/rail the router base can run inside (i.e. fence on either side of the base) and clamp it in place. This works just fine for routing saddle slots in acoustics (with a lam trimmer), which is tougher.

Alternately, if you've got a laminate trimmer that will take a bit small enough, use that. More power is better for a smoother cut.

So I guess I had it right, I just didn't drill the end holes first, and I also ran the wrong side of the router base against the fence. I wish I could use my pin router for this, that would make it really easy with a guide on the bottom, but I haven't seen a bit small enough with a 1/4" shaft.

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John Thiessen
http://www.iszacguitars.com

A better way?

Comperter numerical control.

I mean....solving problems is finally the point....no?



I'm ribbing you for having read your website...no offense.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

The CNC comment on my website is because I get asked all the time if I have a CNC machine that cuts out my bodies and such. I don't know why, but people think that you have to have a CNC machine to build anything. Also, because I have toured a few big name guitar makers and I don't think any of their workers know how to make a guitar, they just know how to feed a CNC machine and pass that on to someone else who does their part. It's really kind of sad. There is nothing wrong with CNC, but I enjoy making the guitars myself, even if I screw up a switch slot occasionally, it makes me get better.

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John Thiessen
http://www.iszacguitars.com

That has nothing to do with a particular tool and everything to do with "specialization". That same statement could apply to the girl who does wiring harnesses, for instance. I dont' know why anyone should be "sad" about it though. If none of them were allowed to have a job because none of them knew how to build a whole guitar...THAT would be sad.

PRS makes wonderful guitars that are a pleasure to play. I don't care how they are made or who makes them. I care if they are made well.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

PRS does make nice guitars, but the CNC/industrializing with an assembly line is supposed to make things cheaper. A PRS is $3K+ and he has said himself that his biggest competition is his own guitars that were built by hand before he industrialized. Nothing wrong with industrializing and cranking out a lot of guitars. CNC allows "unskilled" workers to make high quality products, but the guitars coming out of the factory are not as good as what Paul himself could make, but definitely a lot better and a lot more consistent in QA than hiring a bunch of people to make them by hand. Since they are all built by "unskilled" workers, they should be cheaper than being built by a Luthier, but that does not seem to be the case. You can by a Schroeder for around $3K. In contrast, a Carvin CT6 is about $1400, much more reasonable for a CNC/assembly line guitar which is arguably as good as a PRS. But the free market is the free market, as long as people keep paying those prices for the guitars, that is what they are going to charge. Same as people paying way too much for Apple products, they are really nice, but still over priced for what they are.

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John Thiessen
http://www.iszacguitars.com

Hehe....if you can't run a cnc machine does that mean you are "skilled"?

The question has many angles and is meant to force you to ponder some of your assertions.

Here are a few of mine.

1. Combining old school knowledge and new world technology is far too powerful a combination to dismiss out of hand. Paul Reed Smith himself has determined the efficacy of using cnc machines. So to say that Smith would make better guitars by hand substitutes Smith's own reasoning to use cnc machines for your own reasoning not to use them.

2. It takes no skill to push a button but inventing a manufacturing process ulitizing cnc machines takes boatloads of skill. Trust me. If you start today learning cad/cam/cnc technology....it going to be quite a while before you are skilled at it.

3. Making thousands of something well is expotentially more difficult than making one of something well. Sure cnc machines greatly aid in repeated processing but then again, you have to learn to program them, which is an entirely seperate body of knowledge than luthrie.

4. Saying something is overpriced at $X is fallacious when that something is consistently sold at $X. Sure, it may only be a mass delusion wherein all these people are placing a false value on PRS guitars but PRS is not going to put any stock in the odd opinion when pricing their guitars. I imagine, rather, that they'll price their guitars based upon realistic expectations within their market.

5. Cnc machines are not free. Suggesting that incorporating them into a manufacturing process ought to result in cheaper prices simply because the operator is not skilled ignores the overhead involved....the cost of the machines, their maintenence, the floor space they occupy, the engineering/programming staff...ect.

_________________
I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

John it may sound nuts but I drilled two holes, drew a line c to c with a razor knife and
cut until I could get an emery board in and sanded it to size.

It turned out most excellent but I knew next time I'd have to do it differently- it was my first
and the only thing I could think of.
My second Strat style I used a blender pot....very cool and eliminated the switch slot problem.

CNC guitar parts? I draw lines but they are simply for my comfort. I wouldn't feel comfortable
having a machine cut out a body or neck and state that I made it. I know that others do and that's
fine by me. I know people buy parts, bodies, necks, etc., and after assembly state they built a guitar...I assembled
one but could never feel comfortable stating to another that I made it.
To each their own and I enjoy knowing how they do things so I can decide if it's something
I would like to try. I have no desire for building with a CNC. I work everyday with computers
and sure don't want to deal with one when I'm building...an easy line for me to draw.

The old PRS guitars aren't better because the new ones are made with a CNC, the old ones were made with a duplicarver, it's not like Paul Reed Smith himself was sitting there with a chisel and hammer carving each and every top.
What makes them better is that they were made with better materials, such as brazilian rosewood fretboards, actual abalone and mother of pearl inlays, better tuners, etc.....
I plan on buying a CNC and cutting out my own designs personally, not only for ease of use, but also for precise tooling, would you rather have a hand slotted fretboard or a CNC slotted fretboard? I know which one will be consistently more precise.