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So over the past couple of weeks, I have been spending time trying to fix the back-bow that occurred on the neck after gluing up the fretboard - I was clamping it down forcing a forward bow on it, but after a few hours it would return to the slight back-bow and I didn't want to risk leaving it that way, hoping the tension of the strings would get it right.

I want to share some thoughts and experience I have had with this and hope that it may help others from running into the same situation. First off, I do speak to different builders in regards to different crucial steps on building guitars, so I can get an idea as to what I may want to try. I found that just going by one person's suggestions don't seem to always work well for me. I am not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I do pride myself (at times) on how I think about different things and try to come up with a conclusion that will possibly save time and get something done right.

After speaking with a few builders, there seems to be a general consensus as to why the back-bow occurred - I really wanted to understand this. There were actually 2 possibilities of WHY this happened, one being of the clamping the fretboard to the neck - apparently it should be the other way around (Sounds crazy?)- the fretboard should be on a FLAT surface and the neck should be clamped to the fretboard. I am thinking of even clamping the fretboard to my stewmac 18" aluminum radius beam - that would ensure a flat surface right? The other reason may have been that my fret slots should have been even W I D E R than I had made them - there was allot of time using a jewelers file to open the top part of the slots, but they were still pretty tough to hammer in. I know that there are some of you out there that may not think I needed to do that, but unless you have done inlay that goes OVER the fret slots, you would really understand . So in between the clamping that could have been done better and the slots that could have been wider, I would not have had to take of the already glued-up fingerboard.

I also was insistent on using the old Gibson-style 1-way trussrod based on one luthier's direction. 2 other luthier's recommended using a 2-way, and one of them, after viewing the backbow problem said that if i DID have a 2-way trussrod installed, it could have fixed the backbow.

I know I had to go a few steps back, but I did enjoy the experience of removing a fretboard without dropping a bunch of coin on a "blanket" - The only items I used was a putty knife (I lost my putty knife of 20 years a couple weeks back and ended up making the one in the pick below on Saturday!) a razor, and an iron with the steam setting. It took about a 1/2 hour to get it off of there, but it finally came off....



There was ZERO damage done to the fretboard in the process - before I removed it, I removed the fretwire from frets 2 (You can see in photo)and 21 and drilled a 1/16" pilot/guide hole into the fret slot and into the neck, so I can use 2 small wire nails as guides when re-gluing. Does anyone want me to iron their shirts for work tomorrow?

I then pulled out the bondo and dremeled out the crescent-shaped poplar piece of wood from the center of the 1/4 trussrod slot. I have a 2 way trrussrod I am putting into there - any suggestions how you guys put them in there would be appreciated - thanks.

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"Talking about music is like dancing over architecture".
See the most insane first guitar build: http://www.virgilguitar.com
http://www.youtube.com/VirgilGuitar

I'm glad to see that you decided to build the neck first instead of gluing the shaft to the body and then gluing the fretboard to it. I think you saved yourself some hassle. You're always welcome over at my shop. I've had a ton of experience working with double and single trusses.
I clamp fretboards to necks all the time, no problem.
I probably could have even helped you with this problem.
When you pulled the frets did the backbow go away?
I have a heating blanket you could have used. Clamping the fretboard with heat is a more permanent solution then clamping with no heat.
BTW now that you have the fretboard removed, check the shaft and see if it is currently backbowed with no fretboard, that will tell you some useful information.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

The first culprit that comes to mind when there is a back bow is the too-narrow fret slots. Of course I take for granted that seperate pieces of wood are already straight. I used a double action rod in my tele, and I wouldn't see any reason to ever use a one-way rod. the double action rod is so much easier to rout for and use. Simply rout a straight channel so that the flat bar is level with the neck face. No curves to worry about at all. With regards to single action rods, though, I did read over at TDPRI that some people will put the rod in in such a way as to be able to account for a small amount of back bow. I didn't read the post too carefully though because I only plan on using double action rods, so it didn't really pertain to me. I'll see if I can find it today and post a link for you.

Hi Roger - yeah man, that's what I said in my last post about the fret slots needed to be widened - also someone had suggested that I put the fretboard on the neck BEFORE putting in the frets, which was something I didn't do on the dueling dragons and it was nice and flat (as well as easier to put the frets in the fret caul/press) it's also the way Gibson does things. I'm not completely sold on the idea that you should put the fingerboard on the neck before installing frets, even though there are some people on this forum that will swear that it's the BEST way to go. I also don't see a need to heat the fb when installing - PRS and Gibson don't do that and their guitars seem to be fine. I can heat it when I take it off. I used another luthier's suggestion with installing the 2-way trussrod and it fit like a champ, the fb has already been re-glued and everything is nice and flat now - with no back-bow.

Off to the body for more grinding, sanding and general wood molestation. WOOT WOOT!

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"Talking about music is like dancing over architecture".
See the most insane first guitar build: http://www.virgilguitar.com
http://www.youtube.com/VirgilGuitar

I meant heat when trying to straighten the neckout when it backbows after fretting. I never run into that problem.
The procedure I use is glue the fretboard on flat, then shape the back of the neck to relieve any tension in the wood, then radius, and then fret, that way the neck is straight the whole time and there are absolutely no surprises at any point. The inlays can be installed prior to fretting.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

Sheesh - I'm in the middle of teaching guitar and the phone is ringing over and over and over - thought it was a family emergency but realized it was theguitarwhisperer .... dude, is it THAT important? meanwhile, here's the next student!

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"Talking about music is like dancing over architecture".
See the most insane first guitar build: http://www.virgilguitar.com
http://www.youtube.com/VirgilGuitar

Sorry, I didn't know you were in lessons, I thought you had a power tool running or something.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

geez man, you and your inlay work! awesome work!

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http://hufschmidguitars.com

Ha! Thanks Patrick - yeah, I am seriously addicted to inlay after doing it for the past year. I am not happy unless I can be doing some type of cool inlay - guitar #4 should have something simple, but I don't trust myself with statements like that anymore lol

_________________
"Talking about music is like dancing over architecture".
See the most insane first guitar build: http://www.virgilguitar.com
http://www.youtube.com/VirgilGuitar

Things are back on track this week (FINALLY!) Yesterday I made my backplate, today I had to rout the corners of the pup cavities and finally had a chance to use my neck pocket jig - based on Myka's & Fillipo's jig - the neck fit in perfectly- super tight - hardly room for glue! Gotta run, but here's some pics!















Tonight/Tomorrow, I start on the inlay of the body - stay tuned!

_________________
"Talking about music is like dancing over architecture".
See the most insane first guitar build: http://www.virgilguitar.com
http://www.youtube.com/VirgilGuitar

lookin' great, Virgil . 'bout time you got off your butt and got some work done

Thanks Rog - in between Chris Verhoeven and Fillipo - the jig made everything a snap - I was amazed about how tight fit the pocket is!

_________________
"Talking about music is like dancing over architecture".
See the most insane first guitar build: http://www.virgilguitar.com
http://www.youtube.com/VirgilGuitar

Ya buddy!

I hope that fretboard holds that color. That's gorgeous....but I had a number of coco fretboards variegated from yellow to orange to brown to purple. I didn't actually drool on them so THAT wasn't why they turned mostly brown on me over a year. They're still very pretty but they certainly lost color over time.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

Hey Stuart!
Yeah man - this Cocobolo is almost all gone from my shop - it was a 132" board when I fisrt brought it home a couple months back - I don't think I will be using this wood again, seeing that it's a sensitizer (didn't know about those when I bought it) - it doesn't like finishes unless ya have a good vinyl sealer first - I won't be doing finishes on my guitars, so it's not a worry - I WAS amazed at ALL of the colors on this wood - it's like the Dutch Boy threw up on it.

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"Talking about music is like dancing over architecture".
See the most insane first guitar build: http://www.virgilguitar.com
http://www.youtube.com/VirgilGuitar

Gabon Ebony & Sterling Silver:

_________________
"Talking about music is like dancing over architecture".
See the most insane first guitar build: http://www.virgilguitar.com
http://www.youtube.com/VirgilGuitar

The past several days I have been cutting out ebony pieces that will be the "Willow Branches" that are being inlaid into the body. Today I routed most of the body, but still have some more routing to do in the morning - here's some pics from the past couple days and today:

Aligning the cut pieces:




The pic below is showing MOST of the ebony pieces that are being inlaid - missing the bottom piece...


After the pieces were aligned, I glue them with Duco cement, then trace all the pieces with an X-Acto razor - after they are done being traces, I pop them off:




Scraping chalk and rubbing on surface helps bring out the razor lines better:




After using the 3/16" router bit, I moved on to the 1/16" router bit:


After the 1/16" router bit, I went to my 1.5mm router bit I got from dentist and used the X-acto blade to dig out the sharp corners:


Tomorrow I will have to go back over the sections of the carved top that has the routs too shallow and will go deeper... stay tuned!

_________________
"Talking about music is like dancing over architecture".
See the most insane first guitar build: http://www.virgilguitar.com
http://www.youtube.com/VirgilGuitar

Dang, dude! That's gonna be awesome .

Thanks Roger - I can only hope!

_________________
"Talking about music is like dancing over architecture".
See the most insane first guitar build: http://www.virgilguitar.com
http://www.youtube.com/VirgilGuitar

Very cool!

Thanks Alan - going through each individual piece right now trying to make everything fit - that's what hammers & duct tape are for though, right?

_________________
"Talking about music is like dancing over architecture".
See the most insane first guitar build: http://www.virgilguitar.com
http://www.youtube.com/VirgilGuitar

Second build, eh?

You seriously have to stop with this man; you're making the rest of us look bad! Seriously, who do you think you are!?!?

All joking aside, this looks incredible, as did your last build. And thanks to you, I have also decided to start trying my hand at custom inlay. So far, I have done a mediocre job of a couple basic designs, but I'm learning with every attempt. I've learned more from your two build threads than I have in the 1 1/2 books I've read so far. Keep it up man!

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-—-—-—-—-—-—-
Mike Hoenerhoff
Elderly Instruments

Hey thanks so much Mike - I was actually thinking of not posting anymore - it looked like the interest level may have gone down on "my stuff", but after hearing your words, I think I may keep posting - I'm REALLY obsessed with the inlay and this week, I am trying something different - inlaying wood and sterling silver into a carved top - fretboards seem to be relatively easy for me(just time-consuming!), and I am finding that I actually enjoy the challenging stuff - sometimes, I wish the time would go by a little more quickly so I get to see the final results (Right now I am waiting on the cyanoacrylate to dry on an ebony piece I am forcing a bend on).

I spent almost 3 months doing inlay on jewelry boxes and trussrod covers before attempting the inlay I did on the DD, so I did feel I had the confidence to do that - after it was done, I did question my sanity tho.

There seems to be some tricky parts on the inlay process I am still practicing on, especially keeping a tight fit (minimal gaps) on all the pieces - I am planning on 2 very crazy inlay jobs on guitars #5 & 6 and will see if I totally lose my mind... which I actually may have done already. I'm not interested in "cookie cutter" guitars - want to express myself as an artist on this journey and if it can play well at the end of the build, I'll be more than happy - thanks again for your kind words!

_________________
"Talking about music is like dancing over architecture".
See the most insane first guitar build: http://www.virgilguitar.com
http://www.youtube.com/VirgilGuitar

I've been watching eagerly from the sidelines, and i suspect I'm not the only one .
Are we allowed to know what the "major weight reduction design features" are yet?

Hehehe Hi Andrew - thanks man - looks like I have 3 watchers now - it's worth posting now for sure lol - as for the "weight reduction" I still have not put my "belly contours" on this thing and not sure if I am going for the "Swiss Cheese" effect yet... keep watchin! (Now I gotz a cliffhanger going!)

_________________
"Talking about music is like dancing over architecture".
See the most insane first guitar build: http://www.virgilguitar.com
http://www.youtube.com/VirgilGuitar

Oh, I'm sure you have a lot more than 3 watchers.

Lookin good, it's really coming together.

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-Marcus
http://www.bailieguitars.com
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