Official Luthiers Forum!

Hey all,

I've been gone from here a while. I moved and unfortunately my tools couldn't come with me, so I've been completely off building since mid-August, and I feel a serious hole in my life. Anyway, enough drama. I have an issue I need advice on:

I've been working on a custom Tele for a while, and making very slow progress for a number of reasons. The customer paid me in full a few months ago, even though I only asked for a deposit. Now he's demanding the guitar by Christmas or he wants his money back.

Here's where I'm at now: I applied 3 coats of Z Poxy, then 3 coats of PPG automotive urethane that a friend who works at an auto body shop sprayed for me. I'm currently sanding that back with 400, then 600 grit. The problem is that I have to spray it again and buff before final assembly, but the friend with access to the spraying equipment is in NJ, and I now live in Boston. So I'm wondering if any of you know of a place in/around Boston where I could get the next coats sprayed and then buffed. Also, if anyone is familiar with automotive urethane finishes, and if I now have to spray it with the same stuff again, or if I could have it sprayed with a different type of finish. My deadline is now super tight, so I'm desperate.

Anyone have ideas/advice/suggestions? Thanks for reading through and I appreciate any help in advance!

Sorry, can't help you.

Had a client threaten to kill me once if I didn't meet the deadline to reneck and refinish his Gibson flattop.....

I finished about 5 minutes before he showed.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Gabby,

I would stick with the catalyzed polyurethane but wouldn't be too concerned with the brand. Take a case of Sam Adams and some cash with you and visit a few body shops.

Steve

Wouldnt be my first choice, but you could always use the spray cans from stewmac if all else fails. I dont know for sure if Lacquer is ok over poly, but from what I have read in the past it seems like you can more or less spray nirto over anything. I could be wrong about that so I would read up on it first, but you can do that in a basement, garage, or back room no problem. http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Finishing_s ... quers.html

I used to use this stuff a lot before I got a descent setup for spraying and it does a pretty good job.

And just a suggestion for the future, I always make sure that anyone I am building for knows that deposits are none refundable, and make sure that we can agree on a due date ahead of time. If you didn't agree to have it completed by Christmas right out of the gate, its really not reasonable for him to demand it.

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~shad peters

http://www.flickr.com/photos/petersinstruments/
http://petersinstruments.blogspot.com/
http://petersinstruments.com/

I've never used their stuff, but guitar re-ranch seems to be pretty popular with electric folks for hobby shop finishing

http://reranch.com/

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Jim Hansen

Do NOT go with nitro (nitrocellulose lacquer) - you will not have enough time for the finish to set up and then buff out nicely before Christmas. In my experience.

Stay with the catalyzed automotive finishes - they harden much quicker and are harder when they do, making them easier to buff out. The suggestion of taking a case of beer and some cash with you when you drop in on some body shops is a very good one

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The member formerly known as erikbojerik....

I can't help you with the finish, but when I take an order, I make it clear that the deposit is non-refundable as that is what covers the cost of buying all the parts and wood etc. I am not sure what you worked out with this guy, but there has to be some sort of compensation for the parts even if he doesn't take the guitar. That being said, I hope you get it finished and he likes it.

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John Thiessen
http://www.iszacguitars.com

Gabby this is an area that I actually have experience. If the piece was sprayed before you moved, and it has been stored properly, you will have no problems with another brand adhereing to what you have already. I happen to like PPG products and would suggest you look for a local auto paint supply house that sells PPG. Ask them to help you find a shop willing to spray it. I think you will be surprised how they will help......

Is the PPG just clearcoat? If so, and if you have not sanded with 400 and 600, you might be able to level with 800 wet then proceed up to about 2000 grit. Sitting this long the PPG is likely going to be hard to polish out, and again, that depends on the version.

Wish I had a little more time and I would do it for you, but.......

Mike

Another option would be to talk to some of the local cabinet shops. Should be able to lay some conversion varnish over it for the last coats.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

I believe that you can find automotive finish in aerosol cans on the internet. Somebody on the forum a few months ago built a p-bass and finished using aerosol automotive finish (maybe you could even get it at an automotive store or something).

That was me. I used Duplicolor automotive lacquer. You should be able to get it at your local Autozone or other auto parts store.
It is an acrylic automotive lacquer. In my experience(and this is my standard finish) it works and cures like nitro. It'll take a minimum of 4 weeks to cure. Longer in colder weather. Again, IME, you won't make it by Christmas.

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

First off, Lacquer and urethane are two different products. Lacquer is a solvent based and burns/melts into the surface of the previous coat. where as Urethane is a film type finish and requires tooth/ or abrasion to the previous surface coat to adhere. Polys or urethanes are not compatible with lacquers. It will seem to work at first, but the finish will release at some time and flake off. Lacquer over poly or urethanes will craze first then peel. Poly over lacquer will just plain release at some point (usually heat brings this on) and what looks like air bubbles will appear then flake off.

Find a body shop to spray the correct finish on this. Finding someone in the Boston area should not be that hard. .

Just my .02cents worth of spraying finishes for 30+ years.

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I'm outside looking in, just farther from the window than most.

Don't change the type of finish you are using in the middle of the job, you could be spending days repairing the progress you have already made. If you don't yet have a sand-thru of the urethane clear that is already on there, then sand to 1200 grit wet and rub it out.
Body supply stores will usually have a small fill-able aerosol sprayer. I can't remember the name of them but it looks like a pint glass jar with a small spray can on top. These things spray pretty well and are not expensive, like 5 bucks. You can mix your clear, hardener and thinner, load it up and spray it yourself like the job was never interrupted.

I used a nitro sealer on an electric,
then shot automotive acrylic lacquer over that,
and at about 10 coats,
it did some serious alligatoring!!
You are best off sticking with finishes you know are compatible,
especially when you have a tight time frame.

Thanks for all the suggestions and encouragement. I talked with the customer and we settled this out. Turns out he had just been at a country band concert when he sent that message, and there were 3 Teles on stage, which sparked the emotions. So the Christmas deadline is no longer an issue, but I'm still pressing on, trying to get this finished as soon as possible. I'm sticking with the PPG Urethane, and left the body with my friend so that he can spray it whenever he can, then I'll find a way to get it from him.

As a bit of a teaser, here's the wiring diagram I'll be using, care of a generous member from TDPRI who drew it up for me, given what I wanted the switching to be. I can't wait to get this thing strung up and plugged in. It's been a long time in the making, with plenty of snags along the way.