Official Luthiers Forum!

Ya only need two for a carved top

Thats right Ian...parallels are always in twos.

Um .... me been building for a while now...like since me was 16 and
well me only do carved toppers and
well me only do parallels and
well perhaps one day me build something with the flying crossover and
well if and when me do,
well then me will name it after you!

Well Ian...how that sound?

This conversation reminds me of my momma who when arguing her point of view use to say
" Don't try to change the wind in me as$! My mind is made up."


blessings

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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Yo, Padma,

Your spin on the Virzi tone producer? Well...it ought to be pretty cool with your unique touch. I will watch for it. I think you have done yourself particularly proud on this build. I think the top is quite elegant, and I am looking forward to seeing it all closed up with the neck on, etc. In the meantime, I want to comment on those little "bridge" shaped clamp thingies that you used to extend the clamping range of your bar clamps when gluing on the top braces. That is a very simple, elegant, and obvious solution. As I always say, most things are only obvious to me once someone else like you points them out to me. I like it!

I'm watchin'. Keep the progress posts coming!

Patrick

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So here be me version of a tone generator plate.

the wood me used is way old very wide grained spruce.We don't need stiffness...we need flexibility and floppiness. One day me gonna build one with balsa wood just to hear what that wood would do.





Booked faced although not necessary, jointed and glued like a top.



The egg shape is cut on the band saw and the "C" holes with a coping saw.




Then me start passing it through the thickness sander. I took this one down to .045 which is .015 more than me usually...but thats what the voice inside said to do...so me did.





Then me feather sand around the perimeter down to .04 and also on the inside of the "C" flaps. We is after harmonic partials with this plate. The thinner and floppier, the more partials she gonna produce...well thats what me hopes for. But you never know ya know, until you be plucken them strings.

The feet were fashioned from some very wide grain 50 year old larch that me had left over from makeing me bench( which me still makeing) and fitted to the shape of the top the same way you fit the braces to the tops curve or fit a floating bridge on an arch top....flossing with sand paper.

Here are the feets being glued to the plate.




And here's the shot of the finished plate before gluing it to the top plate.




Me stick this little note on the plate. Then the plate and the inside of the top are shellacked and finally the plate is glued in place.





The finished plate installed.




Many of these plates that Lloyd Loar, in his wisdom installed in the Gibson F5 have been Virziectomized by the "Make me sound louder than the other dudes in the band" mentality. Especially the Blue Grassers.

So as an artist, once I sign it .... that is how I wish it to be seen and heard...now after its sold...its yours ...do as you wish with it ...or to it...but if you do modify it, please have the ethics, decency and kindness to not refer to it as something the Padma made, cuz that ain't the way I intended her to sound, or look. Restorations excluded.

Simple request don't you think?


Coming up next... closing of the box and the banding.


Hope you dudes are enjoying this build.


Blessings
Padma

_________________
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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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Hey, Padma, I'm confused...or just plain ignorant...or probably both. Why did you span over the c-holes with the wide foot? Seems like you'd want to leave them free to flop along their entire length.
Patrick

Padma,

Do the long set of feet line up with the final bridge location? Or is that not significant?

I'm enjoying this thread.

Thanks,

John

John and Patric...

In the past when me build and installed these plates, me pined the plates to feet sculpted in the braces.



I gave some thought to your concern Patric and even though it makes more sense to not glue over the "C" wings, I thought "aw the hell with it" me just gonna lay it down the way LLoyd Loar and Gibson did theirs and we see how she sounds.

Regarding the placement of them feets...its a crap shoot. Again not much written out there on this. Also very few pictures, which me studied, and came to an educated guess that the double feet were mounted slightly back of the bridge line.

This post and its identical sister post on another site has raised some interesting questions that although me was pondering, me basically ignored and just did the Polly wanna cracker routine to LLs wisdom... simply cuz me just don't have the time on this build to experiment.

However It looks like a quick and dirty 3 ply build with a HHGed back for fast removal and access to the experimental plates is in order.

My best thinking, and I invite input here is Nodals. as in fret placement...working from the bridge line as zero...more thinking needed here.
Placement of the feet on the plate itself Is easy I would think ~ based on 22.4 % inwards from the ends of the plates...the natural nodal points for a plate.

So once the nodal points on the top have been found and the 22.4 % crunched in , we would come to the size of the plate itself.

Of course, a close examination of the few existing Gu Qins in Chines museums would be nice, but we all know that ain't gonna be going down any time soon.

Comments?

Now the big thing here is...all this is really too much for dis old mans grey matter and would be a hassle to go down, so me probably won't do it and instead just go with the flow of an educated guess guided by gut feeling and intuition when ever the spirit moves me to instal a tone plate again.

Go figure....


blessings
Padma

_________________
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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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Well, Padma, I'm going to have to scratch my forehead before I can make a constructive suggestion. However, I do see an excellent opportunity here. You can roughly compare the effect of the tone producer on this jazz archtop to the effect of the tone producer on the wishbone archtop--the one where you fashioned the feet into the brace. Of course, they are totally different bodies, but still, you ought to have a rough idea of whether your expectations are being met. I hope you will record the jazz instrument before you pass it along to its new owner, and let us all hear it.

As for the "what the heck" attitude, I agree whole-heartedly. Sometimes you just need to pull the trigger on an idea, and if others did it a certain way before you, well, who am I to question their choices? If, in the future, you get curious and want to re-open the experiment on a new jazz archtop--re-arranging the way the feet are glued--you can certainly do that, and I hope you will.

As I've told you previously, nothing does it for me like a 17" jazz archtop, and one with your unique spin on things is sure to be a very interesting instrument, indeed.

Straight ahead, my man!

Patrick

P.S. I'll amend my last comment. As my dear departed jazz trombonist friend always told me: "Straight ahead....and go for TONE!"

Padma, did you happen to tap on it before and after it was installed? Notice any differences? Do you try to position the plate in the center of the body? Also, do you think something like this would cut down on feedback with an electric archtop? I know its alot of questions dude. As Bob Ross would say, just add a branch here, so the birds have a place to sit. Maybe tone needs a place to sit. Jason

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Jason Moe
LaCrosse WI 54601

This is too cool...been reading this thread instead of going to bed!

Ken

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http://www.casperguitar.com

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Here be the closed up box.




here be pic of me holding a strip of flashing used to prevent the banding from cracking when bending





here be pic of doggie checking out the set up for banding





here be pic of bending the banding





Here no be pics of rabbiting the box or of the banding process...camera messed up. Oh well purfling is a white spruce and dark hog with an oak banding

here be pic of sanding the ribs.





here be pic of sawing out the mortise





here be pic of chiseln out the mortise.





here be two pics of chiseln out the tenon







here be pic of using me straight edge metal yard stick...you know to make sure the neck is properly fitted and aligned. ( don't ya just love it)





here be pic of pencilin in the caduceus





Caduceus, you ask waz a caduceus....well it is most commonly known as the symbol for healing as used by the medical profession. (Remember this arch top is for a Chilean curandero, a medicine man or healer.) For more go here http://www.ayahuascaassociation.org/


here be pic of starting the carve with the veiner chisel or parting chisel.





here be more pics







here be pic of what its shapein up like.








here be no more pics because thats all me got done did.

Come back in a few more days and hopefully carving the necks heal will be finished.


blessings
Padma

_________________
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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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How many pairs of glasses does it take for a luthier to find a chisel?

(no prizes!)

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Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.

http://www.goreguitars.com.au

Well Mr. Gore, may your eyes never fail you.



Duh Padma

_________________
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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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The real question is, how many pairs of glasses does it take to find the glasses?

For me, the answer is exactly 3!

I love padma's build threads. Definitely worth the price of admission. I just wish he progressed a little faster :p

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Jim Hansen

No worries Padma, they already have!

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Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.

http://www.goreguitars.com.au

I was hoping I'd find some progress on this arch top when I checked in this morning. Padma, I might have missed something along the way. Is your neck attachment a bolt in or a glue in? Looks like a straight mortise and tenon, and that's why I ask. I'm enjoying your thread.
Patrick

Missed nothin did you.

Straight like crooked arrow.

Yes bolt on as taught by master loofier and me fellow countryman Dave Stewart, see how he done do them here.

http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10117&t=16049


blessings
Padma

_________________
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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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yikes...don't start that again !
Glad the tut. was helpful
cheers

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Dave
Milton, ON

Thanks, Padma. Yep, Dave and I have corresponded. He's an excellent builder in my estimation, and I, too, like his bolt on concept. I've read his tutorial many times. You go, man. I want to see this axe all dressed up and ready to go. I am digging it.

Patrick

Thanks Guys

Weaping and gnashin of teefs...dentist, pain, infection, drugs...Padma, him no happy camper.

This last week.

Got little done.

laminated the neck with a layer of dark 1/4 rd cedar the whole length
and laminated the head stock with sycamore that came from a pallet that buddy down at the lumberyard put aside for me.



Heres the inlay for the head stock...its pear wood burl.



THe fretboard is somthing that alan stassforth gifted me, thanks alan.. It has a slice of the Sacred Ayahuaska Vine inlayed at the 12. besides a coat of oil, thats all the fingerboard gonna get.







Sorry no pics of me routing out for the inlay work.

Here be shot of the neck, pic guard and the book matched sycamore which looks like a snake skin and will cover the headstock back down the back of the neck.



THe other piece is the pic guard of sycamore and will be detailed with a dark cedar and light birch edge.


Das it for now.


blessings

_________________
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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


.

Any symbolism to the pear wood choice for the headstock...

Usually symbolizes Lust/Love therefore Birth/Death the cycle of life...

???

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"It's a Tone Faerie thing"
"Da goal is to sharpen ur wit as well as ye Sgian Dubh"
"Sippin Loch Dhu @Black lake" ,Kirby O...

Ummm Gee thank AO

last summer me came into some pear burl an upon slicing it up this summer and seeing this patter, I immediately though of this guitar. Sometimes there is no mystic mumbojumbo...but then all things are symboles of things so um ya pear....

_________________
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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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Padma, I love your headstock Burl, and the laminate for the back of the head/neck! That is going to be incredible.
There's nothing more distracting than mouth pain......hope you're feeling better really soon!
Be well! Beth

Wow!
I REALLY like that peghead!
What's the peghead angle?
Looks steeeeep!