Official Luthiers Forum!

Hey guys, I have a really lofty and probably unrealistic goal - I want to build electric guitars (solid and hollowbody) - but my living situation, and the annoying hurdle jumper in me wants to achieve this 100% without the aid of powertools.

Obviously guitars predate power ANYTHING. How could I achieve tricky things like neck pockets and pickup cavities, binding channels, tuner peg-hole reaming etc, with just hand tools and elbow grease?

Needless to say, I'm only beginning. I really need some help!

What living conditions would hamper your use of power tools? I do all my work in a studio apartment.

You could do it if you really wanted to, but you'd probably be putting about 5 times the effort and time in to do something that may be half or less the quality and or precision.

You could use hand drills and chisels, but man, I can't imagine doing it without at least a drill press.

I think you'd have to contemplate quite a few jigs to keep your work precise. But hey, don't let me tel you you can't do it. I'd love to see it done. Can't say I haven't thought about it.

Would a camera be considered a power tool? cause you should totally post pics if you do it.

_________________
http://www.tinyhouseandland.com

LOL I was wondering the same thing about my digital calipers. power tool? haha.

I'll definitely be keeping everyone updated on progress, cause I'm sure that I will be needing alot of guidance. I will be making templates for almost everything ahaha - but of course, without powertools.

I am dieing to know - how would i make a neck pocket without a router? chisels?

I don't know how elaborate your plans are, but most everything can be done by hand with good saws, planes, chisels, etc...

The hardest work is going to be cutting out the body shapes and routing pickup cavities.

_________________
Jim Hansen

Power tools, Drool! Love the power in my hands! Eating sawdust. Chips flying thru the air.

I'm too dang impatient to do that. Especially with hard maple or purpleheart.

As easy as my bandsaw works with the kerfmaster blade to cut thin stock. Homemade router jigs. Drum sander on a drill. and the thickness sander. I couldn't imagine doing it by hand.

No but seriously. It can be done. Try it!

Folks have been building without power tools for centuries.
Check this thread out for some tips:
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/luthiers-corner/129825-barnabys-lp-scratch-build-hand-tools-only.html

When you say "power tools" are you including basic things like cordless drills ?

Having a jigsaw and some kind of power drill would help immensely methinks...

_________________
Jim Hansen

Thats right Jim, no routers, no powerdrills, no bandsaws, jigsaws, no power nothing. Hand saws, gouges, chisels.

It's about time we had some Amish luthiers join!

_________________
"Talking about music is like dancing over architecture".
See the most insane first guitar build: http://www.virgilguitar.com
http://www.youtube.com/VirgilGuitar

Oooo, we have some Amish woodworkers here in Kansas.
Bet they'd make some great guitars!

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

I bet this guy could help. =)

_________________
Jim Hansen

_________________
"Talking about music is like dancing over architecture".
See the most insane first guitar build: http://www.virgilguitar.com
http://www.youtube.com/VirgilGuitar

Seriously man - you should do it - i think it's a great idea - it may even give you a chance to make some pretty cool handmade tools while you are doing it!

_________________
"Talking about music is like dancing over architecture".
See the most insane first guitar build: http://www.virgilguitar.com
http://www.youtube.com/VirgilGuitar

I agree... It would be kinda novel to have an "Electric" guitar made without the use of any electric tool.

Here are some episodes of Roy's show if you need some inspiration.
http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/vide ... index.html

Be sure to post your progress. It will be fun to see how you overcome some of the more difficult challenges.

Also, just curious. What is your motivation to build without power tools?

_________________
Jim Hansen

Go for it! It will be tough work, but certainly possible. I'm just very slightly less of a purist myself Mostly due to space constraints, but I also dislike loud noise and the potential maiming of a power tool accident. And I build acoustics, which aren't that much easier with power tools anyway.

But I buy pre-cut back and side sets, where I only have to plane them to exact thickness and coping saw the guitar shape. And 1x3" neck blanks so I only make two long cuts to taper, and carve the rest by spokeshave/knife/chisel/rasp. So, I indirectly use power tools to go from tree to reasonable starting point, by paying other people to do it.

The main things I use power tools myself for are routing truss rod slots, saddle slots, inlays, and an electric charcoal starter as my heat source for bending. I also use my dad's drill press for tuner holes and neck bolt holes, but I just ordered a (painfully expensive) reamer from LMI that will hopefully enable me to do those by hand drilling to 1/4" and then reaming to 3/8". Although I mainly needed it for violin and flamenco friction pegs.

Truss rod and saddle slots could be done with chisels, if I had a narrower one. Inlays too. But it's just too convenient having the consistent depth of a router. Especially for the saddle, where full contact is essential for maximum energy transfer.

Binding channels, I'm more comfortable with a gramil and chisel than I would be putting a mostly completed box to a router anyway.

I am planning a solid body electric, and my Dremel router wouldn't be much good for pickup and electronics cavities, so I'll be in basically the same position as you. I'll probably just go with the classic method of drilling a zillion holes and then chisel it out. The pickup mounting rings and electronics cavity cover will hide any scruffyness anyway. I'm doing a neck-through, so no neck pocket to worry about.

Cutting out the body shape will be another tough job... the neck is olive, but the rest of the body will be laminated from cedar and redwood, because I like light weight, and because it's easier to cut. Even just a 2/3" thick violin back in bigleaf maple is somewhat scary to coping saw. Slow going, and the blade gets hot enough to scorch the wood after just a few inches of progress. Cutting a 1.5-2" thick electric body in purpleheart or something, it might just ignite. Or shatter the blade and send fragments of glowing metal everywhere to ignite other things (hopefully not including your eyes). I guess you could take it outside and run water on it as you cut. Might splinter more, but if you cut before planing down to final thickness, it'd probably be ok.

This was my plan Dennis!

Coping saw the shape for the body blank, top, back, neck, etc - pretty much all of the big shapes. Then block and palm plane to thickness. Chisels, gouges, and a hand drill to make cavities, neck pockets, etc. Finer stuff with picks, needle files, scrapers etc. Fretting is pretty much always a hand-tool job for most folks, i do believe. Color and Finishing completely by hand.

I have considered pretty much EVERY step in the design and construction and I've decided I can certainly do it without the danger, expense, and noise of powertools.

Not only will I achieve it - I'll achieve it well, and with consistency that I was told I would not be able to attain - I DO know how to use a ruler.

It will be strictly a question of time spent.
For work usually done with a router you can use mortising chisels and clean up with regular bevel edge chisels.
Tenons and dovetails are easily cut with a back saw, a steady hand and practice. If you can find it, look in the back of Irving Sloanes steel string guitar making book for photos of Jimmy D'Aquisto cutting a neck joint.
-C

_________________
Freeborn Guitars
and home of BeauGuard©

Oh yeah, and there are 2 more great benefits - the calories you will be burning (fitness!) as well as a LOWER electric bill - oh yeah and thanks for saving the planet while you're at it!

_________________
"Talking about music is like dancing over architecture".
See the most insane first guitar build: http://www.virgilguitar.com
http://www.youtube.com/VirgilGuitar

I'm not a fan of power tools, and hope to phase out of them over time. In fact what you describe is exactly what I'm working up to do eventually. Not very practical, especially if I want to make a career of it, but it'll be fun anyway. Two things every luthier should have though if they decide to get things done are a drill press and band saw. The drill press is important because it makes all your holes level and straight. Don't even begin to expect that you'll be able to get close to accurate holes without one. For installing tuners especially you need good, straight holes or they won't fit. They're relatively quiet too so don't worry about it. Buy good bits for it. LMII sells excellent brad point bits. You can also get forstener bits. Good for hogging out material for electronics and such. Neck pockets are also a whole lot easier when you use something that will give good, level, holes. Use a chisel to clean the edges out. Take teeny tiny bites and with a lot of patience and attention you can get a satisfactory result. Band saws are good because they get the job done way faster than any hand saw. You get a cleaner result with them as well with practice. You don't need one yet though. Get a jig saw or a few very aggressive blades for a handsaw and you'll be fine. Cut way outside the line and check the saw all the time to make sure it's level and you'll be fine. If you do go the handsaw route, a good way to make sure you don't ruin the piece is to cut at an angle so that the sides taper, getting bigger at the bottom. You can then clean them up with whatever you wish.

Most important thing you need to know is this. If you are just starting out you need to realize that doing things the hard way always leads to failure. Your job is to overcome the odds and beat them with skill and patience, which, let's admit, beginners don't typically have. All I know is that if I started building using only hand tools the frustration would have caused me to quit really early. I doubt you're ready, just judging by your experience anyway. I'd love for you to prove me wrong, but I'd much rather you be successful on your first go. All that hard work should lead up to something ya know?

Here's an alternative route. You want to bring your dependency on power tools to a minimum, right? Well, how about starting out with just a few safety nets while you're still just getting the guitar building bit right? Building an instrument is complicated enough lemme tell you. Once you have a handle on the process, experiment a bit on some alternative ways of doing things. Look at all the options that will most assuredly get you the result you need to get this thing done. Before you know it, you'll be building guitars while the folks downstairs sleep.

I second Ian Cunningham and Fillipo. LMI has a good guitar kit, cheaper than I've seen anywhere else and comes with high quality ingredients. None of the work is done for you, and if you mess up, you haven't lost a major investment.

Ian said some wise words. Just drilling out electronics cavity material with a drill press and a forstner bit takes a lot of time and patience. Doing it with hand tools? I'd probably quit as soon as I got started. But if you've got a plan, please share.

Also these are not expensive tools if that's a concern. I got my bandsaw for free because a friend of mine was just gonna throw it away. Drill press I got for maybe $80 on craigslist. Bandsaws and drill presses are all over craigslist by the way, you can get a good deal on one real easy.

Sorry to seem like I'm talking you out of it but I guess what Ian said really makes sense to me.

_________________
http://www.tinyhouseandland.com

I appreciate all of your guys' input, but I have to say - I am gonna go for it anyways! Scratch build, hand tools only. In about an hour I will be leaving to get my first upright piano to be assimilated . Its an attractive looking piano, but old and worn down. I hope I will have wood of the right dimensions to make a complete guitar with just the wood I have available in this one piano.

The next purchase will be an online purchase - the blueprints! Of course, I'm going to have to make a few serious... er... adjustments to the original design. If this works, you're all in for a treat

QUESTION: At it's thickest point, how thick should a top be that is intended for arching?

Wow, epic fail.

Got that piano loaded up onto the truck, from a house at the top of a very steep hill.

And... brake line ruptured.

So, for now, no piano. No truck either. Shame is that the truck isn't mine... lol.

Gorgeous piano though, the wood looks like it may be mahogany. It's fairly reddish in tone. Absolutely beautiful. I'll keep you guys posted on my hand tool piano recycling ordeal

Pics or it didn't happen!

Sorry, couldn't resist. Hope everyone is ok.

Good luck with your piano recycling...

_________________
Jim Hansen

Everyone is fine! I lost all the pressure in the brake just before we were going to start going down the winding slick dirt lane down the very steep hill... it could have turned out much worse. for now, the truck is at its owners house, the piano is still in the back. It is remotely possible that I will be able to get the piano this evening. one can hope