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I'm just wondering who's using them or has used them or even thinking of using them.

I'm thinking of asking what an adjustable neck joint is.

A neck joint that allows you adjust the neck angle by the turning of a bolt. I use the Doolin Style ANJ.

Thanks Chris.

Doesn't that screw up intonation when you change the neck angle? The way I visualize it, a larger neck angle results in a longer scale length...or is that part of a clever design to change neck angle without changing scale length?

Christian

No not really. No more then when the the top swells and raises and changes the string angle. It's main reason is for when a top swells from the humidity and the action gets higher as a result you turn the neck angle adjustment bolt and change the neck angle just a tad to correct for the swell and bring the action back down. Some players have a summer saddle and a winter saddle so they can change the saddle depending what climate they are in.

I'm using a Doolin style although I still have both bolts on the inside. Next time the bottom one will be on the outside. I also have a bottom setscew based on an exchange I had way back when with Mario. I plan on leaving that out next time too.

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Rick Turner.

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A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

So Chris, what is the Doolin style adjustable neck or where would one find info on it.

Fred

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Fred Tellier
http://www.fetellierguitars.com
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/FE-Tellier-Guitars/163451547003866

I'm planning on using an adjustable joint when I start building again. It'll be my own design and adjust vertically with a hex screw in the bottom of the heel.

Here's some stuff on the Doolin adjustable neck, it's a really good design:

http://www.defaoiteguitars.com/page35.htm

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Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

I'm thinking of one, but Bob's idea threw me for a loop.
Nice thinking Mr. Garrish.

I'm definitely not the first person thinking of a vertically adjustable neck:
http://kenparkerarchtops.com/kenparkerarchtoa.html
http://www.babiczguitars.com/how_neck.shtml

My design is different than those two, though.

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Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

AL#86 to start with.
And I have some stuff on it here on page two. This is a posting of my recent build as it goes forward. Something like a building blog. Check it Fred and let me know what you think.
http://www.luthiercom.org/phpBB3/viewto ... &sk=t&sd=a
I also cut 1 1/2 degree neck angle in to start with so there isn't much adjustment needed from the start.

I'm doing a vertically adjusting neck joint on my current build. Let me rephrase that, as I have several "current builds" on the go, I am using a vertically adjusting neck joint on my most recently started build.

There were complications imposed by the overall design that required this sort of solution. Classical guitar with a double cutaway, and a sloped top for an elevated fingerboard.

This is my first attempt and I'm figuring it out on the fly. There are structural reinforcements that you can't see in the photos.

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Expectation is the source of all misery; comparison the thief of joy.
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I just did a couple, one with the adjustment on the outside and one with the adjustment on the inside. Both basically used Grant Goltz's design. A believer in KISS, I liked the simplicity of it. Worked well in both cases. I came up with my own design for supporting the fingerboard extension though. One thing to note, the head block still needs to be well supported so it doesn't rotate. In fact more so, since the fingerboard extension is no longer acting as a lever, which IMHO was never a good thing to begin with. I went with my version of the A-frame bracing to support the head block, plus I use a Spanish foot.

Bob, Bernie Lehman also does a vertically adjustable neck very similar to Babicz. I believe he did this long before Babicz patented his. So much for prior art.

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Randy Muth
RS Muth Guitars Website
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So it raises the neck vertically and not adjusting the neck angle? That's what Im getting from the picture but not sure if that's correct and I can't quite tell it works.

I'd be interested in seeing how the heel/body join works with the vertical adjustment. Or does the heel just rest against the body so it can slide up and down?

What I like about the Doolin style is the ability to easily adjust the neck to the guitar centerline and the fact that with a 25' radius and and initial 1 1/2 degree angle on the tenon and cheeks, the fretboard sits about 1/16" above the top. My fretboard has two 1/4" graphite rods inset 1/8" into the fretboard and extending out to support the fretboard extension. Two channels are routed into the top to provide clearance.

What I don't like about the Doolin style is the difficulty of getting a good neck/body join because the neck has to be in a recess. Some folks solve this by making the heel straight so they can route with a template. I prefer the tapered look. I did mine by freehand routing then cleaning up with chisels; a good thing to do early in the day before one has had too much coffee.

All that said I plan on using the Doolin style on the next two although I'll make a few changes:
1) Top bolt will not be captured with a wavy washer but will be like a regular bolt on.
2) Bottom bolt will adjust through the heel so the neck adjustment can be done from the outside. I really like the look of the integrated adjustment bolt/strap button but I prefer my strap buttons on the treble side of the heel as I like how the guitar hangs.
3) 2 top setscrews only. I think a bottom setscrew is not needed and I don't plan on using the one I have installed but I haven't strung this one up yet. Be interested in other's thoughts here.
4) Add something like a spanish foot to the top of the neck block that would butt up against the UTB - would that be a spanish hand?
5) Add flying buttress from neck block to the waist using 1/4" graphite tubes.

If someone is planning on doing one of these, they're not all that hard but pay very careful attention to the geometry. I put my top bolt a bit too high and ended up having to put the truss rod adjustment nut on top instead of on the bottom where it belongs. Just have to remember this one works backwards.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

and now for somehting completely different ... my friend Ed Klein's ingenious method .. the looks of the assembled joint may not be for everyone, as it certainly isnt traditional, but its way cool.

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

Wow, I had to put my reading glasses on to look at that one. An ingenious solution that would require great craftsmanship to pull off well (or CAD and a CNC machine). A little too nontraditional for my personal taste but very cool none the less.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Steve,
First off there is no need for the bottom set screw. In fact there is even no need for the top bolt as it only keeps the neck from wobbling when all the strings are removed. Mike Doolin calls it the customer bolt. As it keeps the customer from getting worried when changing strings. I too am not capturing the top bolt on my current build and just using a standard allen cap screw that will also hold on my neckblock cap along with a lower screw. I will be able to remove the top bolt and end cap to access the captured barrel nut if need be and it makes putting the neck on a bit easier and I can adjust the barrel nut if the hole is a bit off and I will have clearance for an truss rod adjusting from the sound hole if I want that. I put the buttresses in my guitars because with FB floating you really need to support the top of the neck block. And I to use the CF to support the FB extension. I may go from 4 to 2 on this one and run the CF through the entire neck. I'm not sure why your neck is sitting 1/16" inch above the body like you said. How and when did you measure for your holes? I might put two braces mirroring the buttresses and get rid of the UTB also to see if it opens up the upper bout any.

I live near Jeff Babicz and a couple of years ago I played several of his handmade and production guitars.

One of the the things that I LOVED about them was the ability to adjust the neck height/action height (not neck angle) simply with an allen wrench from the outside (back) of the guitar without the guitar going out of tune!

It is remarkable how different a guitar can sound just by changing the action.

The fact that they are great sounding, finely crafted instruments was just icing on the cake.

Jeff Babicz does have some interesting features on his guitars. His adjustable neck seems to be a vertical type.

Chris,

Buttresses huh? I kinda liked the spanish hand

I like the idea of the cap on the neck block. That could cover up the setscrew adjustment holes that should only need to be adjusted once. It could also be made of something nice like a piece of rosewood maybe with an inlay for visual interest.

My neck block is built up based on the article in AL#86. I made the neck then cut a 1"wide tenon (with the tenon and cheek cuts both at 1 1/2 degrees). Then I clamped and glued pre-drilled neck block pieces to the neck. After the glue was dry but before unclamping I drilled the holes in the neck using the neck block as a guide. Worked ok but I will be building some templates similar to yours next time.

I left the neck a bit tall until the top was on then milled the top of the neck to the right height and also cut the slots for the truss rod and 1/4" CF rods at that time. I'm fortunate to have a small milling machine and I can mill the top of the neck in one setup. So my neck is right where I want it and the fretboard floats above the top with about 1/16" or maybe even 1/32"" clearance. If you're not playing it you probably wouldn't notice it wasn't glued to the top. Next time I'm thinking about extending the neck under the FB extension and inletting that into the top for an even more seamless appearance.

I'm also thinking about using templates to cut the tapered heel with a matching recess in the neck block so the final cut on the sides could be done with a small flush cutter in a laminate trimmer.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Steve here's my neck block with the end cap backed out and held in with a couple of dowels in the neck yawl set screw holes. I sloted my mold and put a block in the mortise to keep it centered. I got this idea from Mark Swanson as he was the first one that turned me on to the Doolin neck joint some time back over at MIMF.
I'll be recessing the upper cap screw into the walnut neck block cap. The fancying up of the block and back graph is from the Todd Lunneborg school.

That looks real good, its the same direction I'm heading. Yes, I got the idea for the indexing block at the MIMF and, of course, the Doolin adjustable neck too. Looks like your neck block is a mahogany, ebony, walnut sandwich?

I like the fancying up - it looks good and helps set the guitar up a step or two.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Maple between the walnut cap and the ebony. I agree on stepping it up some and it also causes me I think to step up my game another step. I have a walnut strip in the two upper bout back braces also. Although no one will really see it I just like the idea of stepping up my act and taking a little more pride in improving my craftsmanship. I yet have come across any who doesn't like it. When I saw Todd doing it I thought that's pretty cool and doesn't take all that much more time to do it so why not. You can look into the cutoff box and usually find something to use in there.

Funny, I haven't even finished my first acoustic and I'm already anxious to start the next. Guess I've got it bad

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"