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Hi all. I'm hoping this will be the right place to ask this question.

I haven't built any electric guitars (yet) and the guitar for which I'm asking this question will also not be an electric.

I'm building my girlfriend an Acoustic guitar using Figured Maple and she wants it to be green (Back & Sides only).
I've never done anything like this before and tried and tried to talk her out of it, but she really wants a green guitar.

She doesn't want it Solid Green, but rather wants it transparent to where you can see the figure in the wood.



The dyes that I bought are from Lmi and are the Analine dyes as shown on the link below. (I bought the blue and Yellow in hopes to make green)
http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts.asp?searchtext=FSTBLW&Submit=Quick+Search&NameProdHeader=Aniline+Dyes+Water+Soluble

So now for my question... Did I buy the right kind of dye to get something similar to the picture above? If not, what should I get? It will be a waterbase finish.

Should the dye be mixed in with the finish or should the dye be mixed by itself and sprayed before or after the finish?
Any other good tips that might help me along the way?

Thank you in advance for your time in responding to this post.

Regards,
Blain Ullrich

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Thanks,
Blain

http://www.ullrichguitar.com

"89.67% of all statistics are made up on the spot."

Blain, I wish I had advice to give you on mixing the color, but you can always mix a few different concentrations and test them on scrap. It's a beautiful green. Hopefully somebody else will be along with more experience. One thing I'm certain about is a darker stain under the green like a black or charcoal. It's been applied and sanded off, leaving color in the pin stripes, making them so contrasting.

Putting color on a guitar - the horror.....

Hi Blain, One thing I have learned over the years is that color does not have to be achieved in one step.There are many ways to get to the color you are after.First raise the grain with water, let dry, sand back to 400 grit.Next apply dye in low concentration( you can adjust color density as you go) remember that your color will darken when wetted with finish.Sand the fuzz again.Now is the time to adjust how much of your base color you want to show.If you sand back alot ,you get the dye retained in the end grain and lose some as the grain flattens out,thereby enhancing the depth of the grain.I do NOT reccommend using a color too much darker than your final dye as it flattens out the "flash" you see when you change viewing angles.This flattening effect can ruin an otherwise outstanding top,making it look cheap or worse yet, fake. Leave some room for refining your color with a toner over your base coat.This clear base coat allows light to bounce inside your finish creating a depth of color you can't get otherwise.Go easy on your color density here.Build slowly and evenly.
You can mix color by layering one over the other, similar to glazing in a fine art painting.This mixing of color can be in dye on the wood and then as toner in the finish.Sometimes as multiple layers of each as in sunburst finishes.Now clear coat and polish.
One more thing ,TEST ON SCRAP FIRST ,sorry to yell but I can't stress it enough.
I hope that helps , good luck

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How long is that in luthyears?

I'm not too concerned with the color matching the picture. If it's darker or lighter, no big deal.

I mostly just want to make sure the type of dyes that I bought are what I need. (I want a transparent color rather than a solid color). And also should I mix these yes in with the waterbase paint or shoud they be applied seperatly?

I have plenty of figured maple scraps that I can test on, so no worries there.

I appreciate all of the input thus far.

Oh and Hesh....While I know you're joking I totally agree with what you said. You wouldn't believe how many times I tried to convince my girlfriend to not want a green guitar. I tried everything from..."Acoustic guitars just aren't green" to "Wouldn't you just rather have green bindings or rosette", to "Ok, but it's going to be my first time using dye so don't expect it to look good. I could ruin the whole guitar". Women....they just never listen.

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Thanks,
Blain

http://www.ullrichguitar.com

"89.67% of all statistics are made up on the spot."

I think colors look much deeper when they're sprayed directly to the wood. Just shoot the water or alcohol, whichever your dyes are soluble in. Post pictures!

This is one I did usingTranstint dyes. see first url below
I used black, and also green. Now as far as the process. I first dyed black and sanded back. Then a wash coat of green mixed with 1/2 lb cut shellac. ( In the pic you have, they have also added some yellow for the lime green effect, either as the wash coat then green tinting coats, or possilby both as wash coats). Next I tinted my first 2 base coats with green for more depth and color control. I then added the edge Black burst , then my clear coats. Understand that if you use tinting coats you can not sand between them as this will cause uneven color distribution. I hope this helps

note see 2nd url for the double wash coat effect using yellow and orange. This was a quick project with scrap wood I did

http://mikrovisions.com/builds/tele3.jpg


http://mikrovisions.com/builds/firem1.jpg

Mike

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I'm outside looking in, just farther from the window than most.

I used water based analine dyes on bare wood for this one...hand applied. (First coat...higher intensity....mostly sanded off, then a second coat...more dilute). The notes I left myself when done were
a) bad idea on spruce, and
b) on maple, flood..keep wet, then wipe with damp sponge to even out colour (re wiping with a dye-dampened sponge can adjust things)
Hope this helps

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Dave
Milton, ON

I mix the dyes with alcohol first, and hand apply...sanding and hand applying until I am happy with the grain accentuation.

Then, I mix light amounts of the dye with my first top coats to get the substance of the color that I am looking for. putting the color in the finish allows you to get more "depth of finish" that looks better than just shooting over a stained surface...

Stephen

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www.ziegenfussguitars.com

Thanks for the tips guys.

I've think I've got a good idea of what I'll need to do.

I'll get my scraps ready and try the method of flooding the wood with dye, keeping wet and modifying if necessary with a dye dampened sponge.

I'll also try mixing in some dye with the finish and spraying on over that to see what I get.

If you were applying dye to a wood that needs pore filling, would you pore fill first or would you apply the dye first and then pore fill? (just curious)

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Thanks,
Blain

http://www.ullrichguitar.com

"89.67% of all statistics are made up on the spot."

I would (did) dye first, then zpoxy.

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Dave
Milton, ON

Cool. Thanks Dave.

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Thanks,
Blain

http://www.ullrichguitar.com

"89.67% of all statistics are made up on the spot."

Blain,

I've done it both ways, dye on wood and dye mixed into the finish. I like the dye on wood better. It was a learning experience. I would recommend that you raise the grain and sand back several times till you know it won't raise again then put the die coats on, however many it takes. I mix the dye and finish together for the undercoats. I had many problems sanding back the dye coats as the deeper you sand in one area the lighter your dye will be and it looks awful. So what I do is get the die coats on and let them set really good then apply several top clear coats and polish it up. Obviously others here are successful sanding back the dyed coats but for me it was to difficult to sand back evenly. Of course if there is a bubble or a cat hair on your coat you will need to remove it Oh yeah and I use waterbase dye and finish.

You should probably check with LMI to see if your dye will match your waterbase finish product.

Here you go:

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ ... x?id=30182

A really great video tutorial on doing hand-rubbed sunbursts with aniline dyes (although diluted transtint/colortone should work the same way), and for extra bonus specialness - a GREEN handrubbed burst.