Official Luthiers Forum!

This is also something I've been wondering about and I would agree that repairmen certainly do not fall short in terms of knowledge and skill to builders, they just happen to specialize in different aspects of the craft. God knows I've argued the viability of making a living as a luthier with my mother (I still do on a daily basis as I try to pursue the craft...) It encourages me whenever I hear about people that are thriving as professional luthiers, be it builder, repairman, or both. I must say, however, I'm just starting out and my experience has been sort've rocky... So much to take in and learn. Hopefully one day I'll be able to encourage others to follow their dreams, though. XD

BTW, Evan, how's the shoulder doing? I would REALLY love to check out your shop and take a lesson or two from you. =)

Hi Michael,
the shoulder is pretty much out of commission for a lot of stuff. Thanks for asking,I am back
to physical therapy exercise etc.
You are more than welcome to give me a call and visit my shop.
Best, Evan

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http://www.NewYorkGuitarRepair.com

Hey Andy,
I have been building full time since 1992, but will still take occasional repairs on to keep my hands and eyes on guitars
from other shops. I've done repair work since the mid 70s and really love the challenges and education that can only come
from doing them.

A builder who doesn't have a nice foundation in repair work is going to have to learn all of the very same things that those
of us who do have learned over decades of time investment. The difference is that the builders that don't have the education
and experience are getting it on the guitars of and at the expense of their customers who are ordering guitars from them.

Repair people have a deeper understanding of the structure, assembly and disassembly than someone who has only built
guitars will for some time. It's just common sense that it would be that way since they have been exposed to guitars from a
long list of shops of all sizes and quality levels and the effects of time, play and environment over the years that they've been
in circulation.

The repair guys need to be given special attention and recognition as luthiers.


Let's see, the life of a luthier..... Well, there's the groupies and the constant autographs and don't forget the popparazzi. In reality, though, expect lots of long days and less pay than you'd like to see in many cases. Enjoy the people you meet and be determined to learn from everyone you cross paths with. Many builders and repair people are always trying new tools, materials
and methods and are sharing them openly....and incredibly generously.

The modern guitar making industry is unique in the way those involved in it, and even in direct "competition" with one another, share information with one another. It's not like most industries where the participants are like inmates in a prison leaning over their plate to protect their food. It's a refreshing and very encouraging environment to be a part of.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

Why I stand in awe of master repairers/restorers.

If you build, your personal touch is all over the instrument.

If you repair or restore on a master level, you have to be invisible. Nobody should be able to see you were even there.

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now known around here as Pat Foster
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

As seen from this end of the Internet……... First off, a new aspiring young guitar maker has asked a very viable question. THANK YOU to those who have overlooked how this young man has typed and answered his question in detail.
Others, that have been posting on here for years seems to get all kinds of irritated because the way he asked it, just doesn't fit into their little forum world. Then ya'll start bickering amongst each other, pages on end. Don't use this or use that. Who cares? Don't you use acronyms? hhg, brw, eirw, btw? Smiley faces and emoticons? We don't know what they are until we learn what they are. Then our eyes glide right past those acronyms like a second language.
The point I'm trying to make is, a young man asked a question about guitar making and now you've probably run him off. Lets take them all in, under our wings and teach and develop them. Then show them the errors of their English writing ways.

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"After forty-nine years of violin building, I have decided that the search for a varnish is similar to the fox hunt. The fun is in the hunt."
Jack Batts Maker and Repairer of Fine Violins

Agreed.
This would fall under the "Be nice to one another rule" Which by the way have not been transferred to the new forum yet.

Ahh, the OLF Rules, so simple and so few. If we could only recognize them

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Support the OLF! Bookmark our STEWMAC link Today!
Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Thank you, to everyone who has helped me get a better understanding of the life of a luthier. ( and stood up for me (chuckH)). im looking forward to my first build, which will be the campfire mandolin from Stewart Macdonald. I've also been looking around my area for an apprenticeship at music stores, but no luck so far.

once again thank you all for your help,
Andy

Andy, if this is something that you think you want to do, you'll find a way to make it work. There are several schools that have short as well as extensive programs, in repair as well as building. But that can be expensive though. Check your local community colleges. When we first moved up here there was one community college that was offering an acoustic building class as night.

As corny as it may sound, when you are ready to learn, your teacher will be there. Well, if no one shows up, then that teacher might just be you. Check out your library. If they don't have anything on the shelves, see if they will do an interlibrary loan. You'll have to supply them with the title and author and/or the ISBN for the books you want to read, but once you have the books in your hands you, 1) have knowledge available to you and 2) can really look at the book and see if its worth the money to add it to your own library.

Ask around. I'm willing to bet someone's granddad or uncle putters in their shop and they might be willing to teach you a few things, like how to sharpen your tools. Its not as easy as it sounds.

Check out yard sales for old hand tools. If you don't know what's a good tool and what's garbage ask. Find a beater guitar. If there aren't any obvious issues with the guitar, then use it to learn how to do a basic setup and/or a refret. Figure out the bare basics of what you'll need tool wise to do that and then scrounge. StewMac has some tasty tools, no doubt, but you don't have to put out big bucks for someone's over engineered jig when something on hand will do. Check out Grumpy's site. Mario has to have the most elegently simple fret radiusing jig you will ever see. Same with the jig he uses to hold necks while he shapes them. Its a 2x4 and a couple of clamps. You can invest a whole lot of money at one time or you can find ways to not invest lots of money. For example, lots of people use cam clamps of different sizes. They'll run you about $20 a piece. But if you have more time than money, they are easily made. Depending on what's used for pallets in your neck of the woods, you might not even need to buy the wood, just the metal bits.
Read and ask questions.

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Aoibeann

Andy, if you haven't yet checked out Frank Ford's web site, Frets.com, I think you'll find it extremely enlightening on many different levels. Another recommendation I'd make is to check out the Guild of American Luthiers (GAL - luth.org)) and the Association of Sringed Instrument Artisans (ASIA - guitarmaker.org). Get ahold of as much of their literature as you can, and find a way to get to the conventions. The GAL has a convention this coming June in Tacoma, WA (outside of Seattle). There, you will learn a lot about the nuts and bolts of designing, building, and repairing guitars, and also have the opportunity to meet a lot of people who are doing it, both professionally and not, and talk with them about the questions you have.

I'm 44, and though I've been working towards a career in lutherie for 6 or 7 years now, I still have an awful lot to learn and a long way to go to get established in the field as a full time professional. I would love to be at this same point but 20 years younger, without two kids and all the other trappings of this stage of my life. Your funds may be limited, but your time is your own, which is a lot more than I can say!

There are still a few people out there who will take apprentices. If I were in your shoes and was serious about pursuing this, an apprenticeship would be something I would work hard at finding, even if it meant moving across the country (or to another continent). And/or, I'd look hard at how I could manage to go to school at a place like Roberto-Venn.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

Andy,
The repair thing is something that you probably need to reconsider as a viable, nay, indispensable part of your education in lutherie. There are few folks out there who make a living solely from the construction of new handcrafted guitars (until one reaches the level of a Turner,Proulx, Woolson, Wells, etc. which by the way will take years of building and repairing to attain). Many of the people who are turning out high quality instruments have it as a sideline business to a day job or as a retirement gig (read; a good portion of the participants here). When you speak of "hardcore, fullblown" lutherie, I assume you speak of a primary profession dealing with stringed instruments as a livelihood. I submit that a goodly portion of the people who engage in lutherie to put food on the table and keep the lights on have a steady income from repair/modification/restoration of existing instruments as well as the construction of custom instruments. I think it would be foolish not to consider people like Dan Erlewine, Frank Ford, Evan, or T.J. Thompson as anything other than extraordinary luthiers simply because they primarily do repair and restoration. These folks can and have built instruments from the ground up but focus their business on repair. Personally I can tell you that in the two years that I have been at this I have learned much about building from the repair work that I have done. I have built four guitars from scratch but usually stay busy doing repairs. Most of the tooling that I have been able to purchase for the building has been purchased using the proceeds from my repair work (I have made a lot more dough from the repair work than I have the building).

That said. Find a school or class with a good luthier (there are several throughout the country, I studied with Sylvan Wells in VA, he has since relocated to Mass.). It will knock years off your learning curve. Welcome repair work, even if your thing is building you will learn a ton about design and materials through fixing busted guitars. Join GAL and ASIA. Find as many assorted books about lutherie as possible. Pay attention to what you see here.

Best of luck.
Kahle

Andy - I probably don't have anything new to add, other than my own experience. A few years back I wanted to build a guitar but I actually wanted to apprentice in a repair shop first to get a better understanding of the craft. Having access to scores of instruments on a daily basis - some very well made, most not - gave me the opportunity to think about building in a comprehensive and new way. It was an invaluable experience then and now, since I can do repair work as a means of support while I continue my education in building.

Somehow I neglected to add this on my original post, but I have to add that I do repairs as well. I am picky about what I take in for repairs as I only do things like refrets, setups and pickup replacements and installations. It is good money and lets me have a chance to get my hands on some guitars made by other luthiers as well as factories so I get a better understanding of how they build their guitars.

the repair side of the business is a well needed one and an excellent way to learn too. The others are giving you good advice.

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Reguards,

Ken H

Andy,
If you can find a way to attend a Luthiery school DO IT!! I attended a 3 month extensive class, 10 hours a day and even went in on the weekends thanks to the instructor giving me the key. Attend a class away from home so you can focus ONLY on the task at hand. I have 2 children and a wife and left them for 3 months to go 3 states away and lived-breathed and eat luthiery. I could'nt afford the 1 year program. I have been a guitarist for 30 years and "thought" i knew a lot about the instrument.......boy was I WRONG!!! I learned so much and with building 2 guitars from raw materials that has been the best lesson for repairing. It was a huge step for me and a major change in my life being I had a 20 year career in the automotive parts business but got so burned out I just HAD to make a change for myself AND my family. I have been out of school for a year now and this has been the best and happiest time of my life. If you have the drive and passion to do this sacrifice a few things and just do it! Yeah, it has cost a good chunk of money and i am NOT getting rich on it (yet ) but for my well being and health, both mental and physical i do consider myself "rich".

Plus, the people in this trade are the best bunch of people in the world! from the musicians to our fellow luthiers. i am very proud to be a part of this!!

I know this may not answer your original question but it is a experience that I am teaching my son (13) that find something you really love doing and you will never work a day in your life !!

When I leave to go out in my shop my wife will say "have fun" instead of the "try and have a good day" that she used to say when I used to "work" !!!

Best of luck

-Rick

My Dad said something to me when I was about 14 years old and asked about a job at a local farm during
"hay season". He knew the kind of work that I'd be doing from 5 AM to sunset for the next three or four weeks,
but wanted to leave the decision up to me whether or not I took the work.

He said, "Learn two things from every job that you ever do....Learn if it's something that you wouldn't mind
doing for the rest of your life....And learn if it's something that you never want to do again for the rest of your
life."

When it comes to bailing hay and tossing it onto a tractor pulled trailer for 16 hours a day.....well.....I sure do
love building guitars. I suspect that you'll experience much the same thing when you get into building, Andy.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

Excellent, Kevin!

one thing to think about if you're wanting to become a luthier is 'Would I buy a guitar from me?'
it raises plenty of questions, experience etc, that can help build a strategy. Get into repairs + set ups etc.


as with all things, just go for it, the people here are amazingly generous and will steer you right.

Good luck, and more power to your elbow

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www.theguitarrepairworkshop.com

Having grown up on a farm I can definitely relate to the bale throwing!

Consider what YOU bring to the table.Do you want to build because it would be a fun way to earn a living? Do you have a vision of the "perfect" guitar that you want to share with the world? Do you have a burning desire to create something lasting and worthwhile?

In short, can you not do it and still feel ok?
If your answer is no ,you may be a luthier.
Good luck and best wishes for a long and wonderful journey.

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How long is that in luthyears?