Official Luthiers Forum!

Colin,

I already had a sneak preview but the guitar looks and sounds just as magnificent in it's full OLF glory. As I said to you already in e-mail, I'm not a great classical guitar lover but the sound of La leña is very alive and sumptious. It is very well balanced and the mids and trebles are full and dripping - a very complex and satisfying sound. I have seen the tornovoz debated here on the OLF with some dismissing it as a historical experiment that didn't work. The best solution, as always, is to demonstrate that it really does work and that's what Joshua and now you have done - I like that a lot

Having Joshua as such a considerate teacher is fabulous, but to have produced this guitar as a first attempt at the "concept" and all using "traditional" building techniques is as our North American friends would say "just awesome". Hats off to both of you!!

By the way, the oranges for the Frank Coopers Thick Cut Oxford Marmalade Oil Varnish must definitely have come from Seville Great playing!!

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

Thanks everyone for your kind comments, it was a very enjoyable guitar to build. It took a long time as there was a lot of thought, research and discussion with my consultant before each step of the build. But it is nice when a plan comes together and produces the result that you had in mind.

Arnt, yes the Madrose is from Madinter, I bought a few sets some years ago when they were ridiculously cheap, I think about €75 a set, this is the first set I've built with though. Luisa there has just sorted me out a few more sets but they are now €130 each still a very good price for the quality of the wood.

Joshua, more classicals, well funny you should ask that, I sorted out a really nice set of cypress last night, and a set of European maple. So that's at least two, probably a whole lot more! Then again I know where I can get some BRW that went into the stores in 1840, so that might be ready to use, no I'll cut that into bridges and fingerboards. I'll send you some more MP3s, and a lot more questions!.

Steve,Waddy, they are Hannabach goldins medium/high tension. These were on Joshua's recommendation, apparently Brune recommends them for Torres guitars, both original and copy, as they are the nearet density to gut. I've got a gut set on order so I'll be able to compare.

Laurent, really it should have had a mismtched top joined under the G string, and a three piece back!

Howard, I've got quite a lot of P. orientalis, it's a top wood I really like. Like any spruce though it has to be judged on the individual piece. This sample was very stiff cross grain which allowed me to go thin. It is closest to good P.abies and should I believe be interchangeable with it. I believe a number of high end US steel string makers are using it and I would have no compunction in using it on a steel string, though as you say I think it's ideal for classical fan bracing. There is a common belief among museum curators here that many of the southern European instruments of the 18th and 19th century used P.orientalis. The European roads of the time were not that great and most trade around the Mediterranean would have been by sea. Boats bringing cloths and spices from Turkey and the near east would have brought the wood to Spain, Italy and Southern France. Much easier to bring heavy goods like wood by sea to Spain than cart German spruce over the Pyranees! Instrument makers of the time couldn't just phone their local tonewood seller, and P.abies/P.orientalis would just have been lumped together as 'Pine'. To my mind good samples are premium top wood.

Dave, Seville oranges, definitely! You should build a nylon string guitar, if only to play all of the Irish harp music.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Colin, that looks very very nice. Can you tell us what distance is between the tornavoz and the back of the guitar?

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Build log

Very nice Colin! Congratulations.

I built the FE19 from the Romanillos book, and it sounds great. I used an ebony bridge and it still has that dark punchy sound. I made it adaptable to a tornavoz but never got around to it.

Keep up coming.

Here's a shot of mine. Mahogany sides, engelmann, spanish cedar neck, Ebony bridge.

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Ken

Absolutely stunning!! Congratulations on a job well done! Nice playing too!

Sublime construction and playing. Congratulations, Colin!

Colin,
from this day forward, whenever I think of what an excellent classical should sound like, I only have to listen to this clip. That's exactly the sound I want to hear. Congratulations!
Craig S.

Beautifully done!

Colin, you have been exceptionally and abundantly blessed with the ablity to build beautiful guitars, and play them with amazing skill, sensitivity and emotion. I really enjoyed that peice, and loved the tone & the looks of this classical.

The UK luthiers on this site are inspirational.

I second the motion! All agreed? Say Ay! AY!

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Steve Walden
Aspiring Builder,
Bartlesville, OK

Colin,

Wonderful work! The sound is a delight.

Congrats',
Max

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Max Bishop
Brighton, Michigan

Thanks again everyone for your kind words and comments, both on the guitar and the music. (We don't have enough music on the forum.)

Dave, yes you are quite right, I think that both Joshua and Gerhard have shown beyond doubt that the tornavoz was not just a Torres 'failed experiment'. It is more work and most probably fell out of favour for purely commercial reasons, even 19th century guitar builders had to feed their families. The tornavoz guitar, properly conceived and installed, not just a cardboard tube in a standard guitar, has the ability to concentrate and enhance the natural voice of the instrument. The guitar Professors that have now played La leña would agree, I couldn't get it out of their hands. We dismiss the history of our instruments too often, when that history can often show us things of great value.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Colin, Cypress for your next one should work out really great! As you know, its my favorite back/side wood. It seems to be catching on quite a bit for classicals. More and more makers are using it and customers are much more receptive to it than I originally thought. For that style of guitar (Torres) I think its really great and it will produce a bit of a different timbre that will compliment La leña nicely.

Do you know of any players who play without nails? I know you built La leña specifically with Tarrega in mind and there's no need to learn a whole new way of playing (obviously, since your Tarrega is really nice!) but it is fun to hear someone without nails play this kind of guitar. I had someone play one of mine without nails and it was kind of enlightening for me. I've built guitars for a couple players now who play without nails now and these old school Torres-type guitars really work beautifully for that. Its a different sound and very appealing (I think I sent you an mp3 of Carles Trepat on his Torres?).

Again great job and I'm looking forward to hear how she develops over the next several weeks (its a pretty fast process at first, in my experience for classicals).

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Instagram: @jfrenchluthier
Web: https://www.jfrenchguitars.com/

Colin that is really beautiful. Great tone and fetching aesthetics. (even if you decided to forgo the pearl)
I am impressed that you did not use power tools. How did you thin the plates and sides? Did you use a plane and scraper. I also am curious about the peghead joint. Is that the V joint?

I recently purchased a scraper plane from an old tool vendor and really like the speed and accuracy with which it removes wood from flat surfaces. And, there is no dust in the air, just shavings on the floor. But, getting away from the power stuff is hard. Cudoes

John, thanks for your kind comments, you l know I value your opinion. Maybe the pearl on the next one (or maybe not). No, this is a normal scarf joint, I was trying where possible to replicate the Torres original in terms of construction, V-joint on the next. The plates were thinned with plane and scrapers, including my old Stanley scraper plane, they are superb tools. I just love using hand tools as I feel more in touch with the wood and often quicker than setting up the power tools. Thinning the Madrose was a bit tricky but who said that this was supposed to be easy.

Joshua, it's definitely the cypress, I've got some really nice stuff from Madinter that's been calling me to be used. I only play with short nails, I use a lot of finger, being a geologist and having long nails doesn't really go together, they wouldn't last long in the field. I also feel that you can get a warmer sound using more finger with just the nail as a highlight. Also, with the lute, short nails works best. I'll send you some more MP3s.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

I'm with you on the nails. Long nails also do not fit well with guitar building. I can't tell you how many times I have sanded my nails off, even when they are reasonably short. When they are right, my nails are just barely visible over the tips of my fingers from the palm side. I think it allows for the best string contact, either obliquely or with a more perpendicular attack.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Colin, Congratulations on a beautifully constructed historical classical guitar--tastefully done. I share your respect for Joshua's knowledge regarding traditional Spanish guitars. No doubt he was a valuable consultant.

It sounds very nice and you’re clearly an accomplished guitarist.

Colin,

I regret passing up listening to your instrument until now, so lovely with such great separation and clarity. And the playing was wonderful. I am actually a little shook up how much I reacted to hearing this - very moving indeed. What a great and fun thing we can do with a little wood and our hands.

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"Building guitars looks hard, but it's actually much harder than it looks." Tom Buck

Marc, yes Joshua's input and encouragment were critical in my building of La leña. We have discussed taditional techniques and historical instruments for the last three or four years, he is the classical builder that I most respect. My background is in building and playing steel strings and lutes, but also in the restoration of historical lutes and guitars. I've played classical but not seriously until four or five years ago. Joshua turned a pastime into a passion for Torres and Tarrega.

Steve, thanks for your kind comments on the playing and tone of La leña. My teacher is something of a Tarrega expert which is a major benefit in it's interpretation. The lyrical Tarrega pieces are technically not difficult, but so moving as to be truly beautiful. I've recorded a number of them now. My main thrust at the moment though is doing some archive recordings of the Dowland Galliards and Pavans on the lute. I may post some of these if there is any interest.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Colin,

This is very, very nice! Now that I can log in again and see photos, I'm happy that the first post that I make is in regards to your lovely instrument. Did you get my last PM? or did it get lost in the software move?

It really makes me want to pursue a tornavoz equipped guitar now! As per your recommendations, I have been collating the available info, though its still too early for me to know what of my findings is relevant.

And I'm glad to see Joshua back! I hope to read more of his postings.

Colin,

This is very, very nice! Now that I can log in again and see photos, I'm happy that the first post that I make is in regards to your lovely instrument. Did you get my last PM? or did it get lost in the software move?

It really makes me want to pursue a tornavoz equipped guitar now! As per your recommendations, I have been collating the available info, though its still too early for me to know what of my findings is relevant.

And I'm glad to see Joshua back! I hope to read more of his postings.

Doug Ingram

(edit: it seems that my login got dropped somehow...)

Colin,
Congrats on La Lena. She is beautiful. I'm glad you made good on your promise to post some Tarrega. Your recording is wonderful. The buzzing subsided once I turned my amp down... it goes all the way to eleven. Keep those songs coming. Just think, in the next century someone in the OLF will making a copy of La Lena built by Colin Symonds and they too will wish they had the original.
chris

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Chris Oliver
Infinity Luthiers
...in the shop.

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