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[QUOTE=Hesh] Todd buddy it is the size of the particle that is being captured, consistently, that is the real value of the systems employing a cyclone of HEPA filter.I used bags too in shop vacs and they are really just a strainer and the smallest particles are still released into the air for you and others to breath. In addition to the bags I also used the $36 HEPA filter cartridges in my shop vacs and although these worked they clogged up in less use then it took to build a single guitar.So what I think is being missed here is that Tim is trying to capture the finest particles which BTW are the most potentially dangerous.
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Thanks for your response, Hesh. I'd like to get more information, if I can, on how effective these bags are at filtering out the finest dust. I was under the impression that the ones I get, which are billed as being designed for fine dust, like drywall and cement dust, do a good job of that, but I confess I haven't thoroughly investigated it, or even really thought about it for quite a while. I'll have to take another look at that. If anybody has any solid info on that to share, I'd appreciate it.

I certainly don't question the wisdom of dust collection systems that are effective at filtering out the super fine particles.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

[QUOTE=Brock Poling]
Read the controversy section on Bill Pentz's site.

Very interesting.

[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but whom do you believe? It's easy to read one side's take on it and believe them, but there are always two sides to every coin. Oneida has been around for a lot of years, making what a lot of folks have felt is a very good product. Who is to say Bill Pentz didn't take designs from others and test them and publish the results? Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
I'm not trying to stir the pot here, but there is always more than what meets the eye.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

I have a 'hepa filter' that goes over the main paper filter, they are like $20.00, got it at home depo I think. Works very good. Drill press has a dust collector plug in, still need on on the bandsaw. Table saw is absurd still. I use a fan to blow it outside but it could be made pretty tight.

I also use a 3M mask with the little plastic exhale vent. when I am in the garage for any length of time., always in the garage.

 

Tim thanks for sharing your findings.

The pics speak for themselves.

I was thinking, there is no way that pleated filter doesn't have some dust on it.

Bill Pentz's site has been a standard read on an annual basis since I started.

Dust collection can be expensive and a big hassle, but it's something we all need desperately.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for shining the spot light on this problem.

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

Just got off the phone with Ed Morgano. I wanted to know when my Mini CV06 Cyclone would ship. Today he said too. Just in time for .... well probably after Christmas arriving.

This was a gift to my ..... LUNGS!

Next, the conversion begins for the big boy. I asked Ed if he could utilize the motor and impellers off my current system and he said with modification that was possible. So I'm looking into that, may build a big one for the entire shop without breaking the bank.

Hat's off to Tim again. The OLF does it's most good, when sharing becomes caring. Tim's need (Mary's allergies) pointed to something that will help us all if heeded. I think this deserves ten stars!
   

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

thanks Todd, hadn't considered that or read any info other than the results in Tim's Bucket.

I pretty much don't fall under anything....

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

[QUOTE=Todd Rose] I always use a bag inside my shop vac - standard shop vac bags available at hardware stores, etc. It catches all the dust, so the shop vac's filter element never clogs up. When the bag's full, it goes into the trash, and a new bag goes in. So, I don't see a need for the cyclone, which appears to make the vac so much more cumbersome. Is there something I'm missing?

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Hi Todd,
My ShopVac uses filter bags too. What the Cyclone does is capture 99% of the junk sucked up. The filter bag had about a teaspoon of dust in it after emptying the bucket 5 times. What dust that did make it to the bag (and out of the bag) the pleated filter caught. Perhaps the cyclone improves the efficiency of the entire shop vac system? WHat does the pleated filter look like on your shop vac after you have sucked up 25 gallons of super fine wood dust? That may shed more light on your question.

You are correct as the cyclone does make the vac more cumbersome. I would like to see a better [package] design, for sure.

I hope my thread doesn't come across as me posing as an expert on vacuum systems because I am definately NOT one. I was just merely trying to share my enthusiasm for a product that has some merrit to the overall health and well being of wood workers.

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Tim, I was listening with my eyes.

Ed shipped me one today.

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

Tim,

Is Mary moving her work space out of your shop or are you just not going to use certain woods?...or is this New Vac the solution?

[QUOTE=Tim McKnight]WHat does the pleated filter look like on your shop vac after you have sucked up 25 gallons of super fine wood dust? That may shed more light on your question.[/QUOTE]

The pleated filter stays clean. So, this means one of two things: either the bag is catching everything (or nearly everything), or the finest dust is going through both the bag and the pleated filter and back out into the air.

I will see what I can find out about the particle size these bags are supposed to capture. As I said, I do think it is wise to do the best we can to keep our air free of fine dust, and I applaud you for calling attention to this.

On the other hand, I can't say I'm going to worry TOO much about this, because of the other parts of my overall dust collection system - my main dust collector and ceiling mounted air cleaner, which both capture fine dust. When I'm vacuuming to clean up the shop, I wear a mask, and the ceiling mounted unit is running as well. Then, typically, I'm leaving the shop after that (running the ceiling unit for a while after that; it's got a timer to shut itself off). There is still some fine dust that settles around the shop, but I think that will always be the case no matter how hard we try. My shop's air is also pretty well sealed off from the rest of the house (no forced-air heating).

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

[QUOTE=SkyHigh]

Tim,

Is Mary moving her work space out of your shop or are you just not going to use certain woods?...or is this New Vac the solution?

[/QUOTE]

Mary's main task in the shop is to take pictures and email to customers. She really doesn't do any hands on stuff but she is subjected to the air in the shop when she is out there. We think the main culprit is Cocobolo dust and we are hoping the new system will eleviate the problems. If not then we will have to remove Coco from our options list ;(

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Ed, had to think about it for a few minutes, but he gave my drawing the thumbs up. Tim, I don't have a place to put one more thing in my shop without adding on. But with the results you've shown, I just had to have one of these babies for starters. I've wanted to redo my dust redistributor for a while now. Check out my drawing. The SHOP VACs are on sale 10% in the before Christmas sale, paid for half the shipping on the Mini ClearVueClyclones.com Cyclone.

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

Note: In my above rendering, this eliminates the hose connecting the ShopVac to the ClearVueCyclone. Going vertical and eliminating the extra hose simplifies it a bit, of course I still have to build the cart.

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

Bruce:

You might be able to find exactly what you want, and it's mobile. This might not fit the purpose, but it's easily modified, etc.

I'd sure love to see your final project photos.

Bill

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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

Bill, those things come with wheels, don't they?  If not, I might have a set that would fit.  I bought one of the shelf sets, and don't use the wheels, I may still have them around somewhere.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Hey Bill, that might just work. I plan on taking the wheels off the Shop Vac and who knows, they might fit under that cool rack.

I'm excited to finally be doing a small part of my dust eradication. Without spending a bundle, I'm hoping to additionally convert my big dust collector to a cyclone system. Tim got me going big time on this. Hopefully some other guys will be inspired to eliminate dust from their health's future.

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

Have you watched the Video for this Mini Cyclone at ClearVue guys?

http://clearvuecyclones.com/ShopVacVideoSmall.wmv

It's funny the way the guy offers the dust to the machine out of a five gallon bucket, but it really demonstrates the ability of the cyclonic action to pack the sawdust in the receptacle. As Tim said Amazing!

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

Grabbed the wrong clip, but it demos it pretty well just vacuuming the floor. Nothing in the shop vac, all the sawdust in the five gallon bucket...

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

I called and talked to Ed today too, and placed an order for the largest one he makes...the 1800.

It will be shipped out one day next week, after Christmas. Just wanted to say thanks to Tim for bringing this up. GREAT thread and a well needed resource for the forum also. By the way, Ed said he had been bombarded with phone calls from forum members today, so business is good for him also. I am looking forward to installing the new vac system in the new shop.

Thanks Tim!

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Reguards,

Ken H

All right Ken, we want pics when you get yours up and running.

Ed has answered the phone and emails from me. I'm sure anyone with an existing dust collection system, could build one.

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

There you go Todd. That's about in anyone's price range that already have the double bag systems. My dinosaur is DOA as soon as I figure out how to get a system in place and operable. What no link?

Maybe you guys have posted about the effectiveness of cyclones, but this thread was just an open-eyed demonstration of it's potential. I do need a big one and I need it now.

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

I'd never heard of a Dust Deputy until two days ago, still didn't know what it was until now. I see the IMG tag includes %20 for a space so it may not work. Here is also a link to Oneida's Webpage on the DD.

http://store.oneida-air.com/item.asp?cID=0&PID=749

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

It's what I have, and it is a killer little system.  My vacuum is sooooo much more efficient now.  It will actually collect dust all the time, instead of just when I start up after cleaning it out.  I use a 10 Gal Shop Vac Pro. (the stainless steel one).

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Good grief...I just realized the ClearVue place is about a bit over an hour from me - AND - I'd have to drive by a Woodcraft on the way.   

Hmmmm...might run down there one day and check'em out.

Bill

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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

[QUOTE=Bill Greene]Good grief...I just realized the ClearVue place is about a bit over an hour from me - AND - I'd have to drive by a Woodcraft on the way.   

Hmmmm...might run down there one day and check'em out.

Bill
[/QUOTE]

 

Be sure to stop by the jockey lot when you go.... ou can buy anything there... ANYTHING!!

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Reguards,

Ken H