Official Luthiers Forum!

I'd like to re-ask:
I know some members of this forum have worked for Martin, etc. so perhaps they will have insight together with vast knowledge pool here.
The professional performers that choose to play a factory guitar and are named by the factory to be user-bigger names-what do they have done to their guitars by specialist luthiers in the factory.
Are the guitars made individually ie tuned tops?
Are the musicians able to get custom specs-more top, middle, etc.?
Are the guitars picked from a regular run and then work done to bracing?
Do all biggie performers have custom-sound-guitars?

Most big name performers are sponsored by a manufacture.
The way the arrangement works will vary. Many artist will have custom builds provided. Some up and coming will receive production line Road guitars that have been gone through. Some just receive guitars that they use on stage only purley to be seen with the guitar for name recognition. So there is no one answer.

One of the most infamous deals was Takamine and Garth Brooks during the Thunder Rolls tour. He was supplied with 3 new guitars for every stop on the tour. While he received some tricked out guitars as part of the deal The 3 he got for each venue were standard production line of that models that were destined to be destroyed on stage.

Not counting the break and toss guitars most big name performers that play "NEW" brand name guitars did get them through the manufacturer custom shop. But not all are freebies.

There is no standard way it works. I used to run Gibson's West Coast Artist Relations department. My job was to give Gibsons away to the right people...and to sell them at factory cost to practically any breathing guitarist who had a record deal. Some may not have been breathing... I signed Guns'n'Roses...

At that time, the instruments were straight off the factory floor, and anything that came through my office did get a decent setup. I also did R&D and some design work with artists, but nothing that came to fruition as product because of the incredible layers of ever changing bureaucracy. For instance, as a designer for them, I had six bosses in four years...and I was West Coast based, so it seemed like I was constantly getting on a plane and going back to Nashville to explain my job to my new boss...

Rick
Not in the instrument industry, but I have flown to Houston a time or to for the same reason.

On topic:
A lot of contracts are written solely for advertising. An artist uses a manufacturer's guitar by coincidence and the manufacture signs the said artist to an add contract. Supplied guitars may or may not necessarily be part of the deal.

Are some 'big names' also paid for exclusive use? Do any of the factories make custom guitars for their performers?
Also, since most big performers are 'wired up', does custom (sound) matter as much since with many, we are hearing sound through pick-ups of some kind?

Very few performers get paid to endorse, though they may get paid for performances, workshops, personal appearances in stores, trade shows, etc.   There may be signature model   deals where the artists get a percentage; the most obvious example of that being Les Paul who has done very nicely, thank you very much, for his name being on those hundreds of thousands of eponymous guitars.

Some factories make custom instruments specifically for endorsers. A great example of that would be Martin with Laurence Juber, a fantastic player who does have golden ears and is extremely involved with the tiniest details of his guitars.   LJ is the guy who correctly identified a koa/cedar guitar digital model as being the source...playing a rosewood/spruce guitar with a pickup into the modeling preamp.   Blew my mind, I'll tell you... We've worked very closely with LJ on developing some D-TAR products.

For the artists I work with, plugged in sound is supremely important. For instance, David Crosby, with whom I've worked for decades, once said, "Turner, if you develop a better pickup and I don't get it first, I'll have you castrated..."   So David remains on my first call list!   That, from him, by the way, is the supreme complement...

Most of the artists I work with are extremely concerned with the plugged in sound, and they have been co-responsible for anything I've done that has perhaps advanced the "state of the art." They also want great playing instruments that can take the rigors of the road. And they like 'em to look nice.   But it's in that order...

I believe Paul reed smith makes you buy your first couple of guitars at full price before they will even think of an endorsment deal. I guess this is their way of making sure your serious about your endorsment deal and playing their guitars and not just looking for free stuff.

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Guitars, guitars and more guitars.

There was talk on one of the forums a couple of years ago about a famous fingerstyle player switching from Collings to Martin. The talk revolved around the idea that Martin must really be getting their act together and making better sounding guitars than they used to.

That player happened to stop by my shop one day and he brought his new Martin with him. I played it, didn't think it was all that great, and told him so. He said, "Ya, but for a stage guitar it's fine..... I mostly like it because it's really light and easy to carry around".

Mark

   When i was at Martin, there were always artists popping in, getting the special executive guided tour, and leaving with lots of free stuff. I watched once as a pair of guys who were very famous and were touring together left with a carload of guitars.

The artist guitars typically get a liitle special attention to their set up before they go out to them, but that's about it.

   I remember a few years ago when the Chicks thanked the guys at Taylor for all the "free Stuff". Endorsers sometimes become endorsers just because they're getting things for free so Paul Reed Smith has the right idea. What better guys to offer an endorsement than those who scraped and squezzed every penny to get the guitar they really wanted before they wer making the big bucks.

   Why would any builder want a half hearted endorsement from someone who never used their product before they got it for free anyway? Well, I guess I understand why....if it'll sell you some guitars.

   I always liked Taylors CDs of famous artists playing tracks on their guitars, but I started a recording a while ago to be called "The Peer Project". Once it's completed, it will feature fifteen great players who aren't famous at all playing my guitars.

   No half million dollar recording rig, no incredibly expensive mics....just fifteen guys who love to play and can play better than alot of the famous guys playing guitars that they paid for because they love them.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

In unguitar related endorsments does anyone remember when Britney spears was endorsing pepsi but was always seen in public drinking Coke? So i ask does seeing someone using a product really influence your buying choice? I know it doesnt for me because i think they are all a crock of @%&*.

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Guitars, guitars and more guitars.

[QUOTE=FishtownMike] In unguitar related endorsments does anyone remember when Britney spears was endorsing pepsi but was always seen in public drinking Coke? So i ask does seeing someone using a product really influence your buying choice? I know it doesnt for me because i think they are all a crock of @%&*.[/QUOTE]


Pure sales isn't really why they do it for stuff like this. They are looking to become entrenched in a particular "lifestyle".

In Pepsi's case the implied message was "Coke is the OLD drink... young hip people drink Pepsi". (Bet they didn't know Brit was going to spontaneously combust... huh?)

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

terken,
   I've heard of similar things in other areas where an endorser has a
brand name on a product that is as far from that manufacturer's product
as could be.

   It would be like a guitarist playing a beautiful custom guitar that they'd
commissioned from a small builder with all of their favorite dimensions
and details, but having the logo of one of the major production houses on
the headstock. Pretty sad...and deceiving when you think about it

   I agree with Brock, too, that endorsements are, many times, pursued in
an effort toward lifestyle association more than association with the
endorser personally.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

I'm curious, how many of you all and how often do you get requests from "artists" for them to "endorse" your guitars. I get at least one request a week on average. I usually tell them that we can work out some sort of discount but that I don't give away any of my product. Funny, I usually don't hear anything after that.

We do accommodation "artist price" deals a number of times a year with a range of wonderful musicians ranging from major recording artists to what we call "local heros". We work more closely with some than others. We are careful to check guitarists out before we make any deal; we want to see video, hear CDs, see a webpage or MySpace page, etc., etc.    


Sometimes we work with artists to design new models. For instance we're working with a very find and dynamic guitarist now named Janet Robin, and she's helping us develop a version of our Renaissance acoustic-electric that has "stereo" output with a modified Duncan pickup on one channel and our Timberline piezo on the other. This guitar is a true crossover and can go from screaming electric to stately ampli-coustic with the flip of a switch with the mag pickup going to an electric rig and the piezo to the PA. With Janet, we're trading her the guitar for live performances and help in our NAMM booth. She's really earning the guitar, so it isn't free, but there's no money exchange.   It's a fantastic deal for us and for her, and it's lead to a wonderful friendship as well.

[QUOTE=Kevin Gallagher] terken,


   It would be like a guitarist playing a beautiful custom guitar that they'd
commissioned from a small builder with all of their favorite dimensions
and details, but having the logo of one of the major production houses on
the headstock. Pretty sad...and deceiving when you think about it


This happens all the time with some very famous bands.
Guitars are ghost built by luthiers and one of the big threes name is on the head stock.

I do not know about the endorsement stuff in this day and age, 20 to 50 years ago it may have been a big deal but today the music market is so fractured I do not think it means much.

The product has to appeal to people on a certain level. I think a big problem with a lot of luthier guitars and this segment of the industry is that the products are too bland or kind of ugly. With the big makers it is kind of hard to bring a new exciting product to the market due to buyers consrvative attitudes.

You mean to tell me that Budweiser doesn't actually make race cars? I'm shocked.

Paul,
    That's about what happens here with artists calling for a guitar
inexchange for their endorsement. I've been happy to be able to tell them
exactly what you do.....I'll offer them an artist discount and, most times,
the respjse is the same as they never come back and sty on the path of
seeking out "free stuff."


    I know of one builder who had another source of income that paid his
bills as he built guitars for the love of the craft and as a supplemental
income source. He chased a particular player around the country throwing
guitars at him and asking for an endorsement.

    The artist, being the honest and humble guy that he is, repeatedly,
returned the guitars to the builder with a sincere "Thanks, but no thanks."
and would offer an honest explanation of what didn;t suit him about the
guitar each time.

    The builder would then build another guitar with modifications closer
to what the player had expressed a desire for and would approach him
again at a concert to present it to him and ask for that endoresement.

    At the end of it all, the artist finally kept a guitar....partly because it
would work for him as a backup to the guitar built by another well known
builder who he had openly and freely offer his endorsement to years
before, and partly to save the guy the expense of traveling cross country
giving him guitars to win an endorsement.

    The sad thing is that the builder's popularity grew and he enjoyed a
wave of orders as a result of that endorsement, but the endorsement
came as more of a settlement than a true endorsement from a heartfelt
appreciation of the instrument.

    I've spoken with this artist on many occasions and have become friends
with him. He owns two of my guitars, but still plays his main guitars from
the builder he has endorsed for a long time for the most part in live
situations. I never asked him for an endorsement either, but he's offered
to play an original track on my "Peer Project" CD when it's recorded.

    I believe that most people who understand the guitars and the
differences between makes and models actually understand the shallow
nature of many endorsements and the marketing tools that they are.
There are many very sincere endorsements that are offered from the heart
of the artists in true appreciation for the work of the luthier, but we'll
never know which they are and which are not.

    That's why it's so important that we stress the importance of our
potential customers deciding on a guitar or builder according to what
they really want or need instead of what their favorite artist or magazine
says they should play.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

Rick said,

Turner, if you develop a better pickup and I don't get it first, I'll have you castrated..."

Kirby says,

Reason #339 to remain a hobbyist.

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"It's a Tone Faerie thing"
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