Official Luthiers Forum!

Check this out. Have any of you guys played one? What do you think?
http://www.bouldercreekguitars.com/sbs.html

"The “SBS” system is simply a better way to brace a guitar."

What more do you need to know. They say it's better, so that's that.

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Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

I'm not crazy about the way it looks. I'd have to really like the way it sounds in order to overcome that. I just expect something more organic looking on an acoustic.

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http://www.PeakeGuitars.com

 I dont know.. all that innovation, then  he uses a stock bridge?..I dont get it ... Jody

I was thinking the same thing... looks like a martin bridge.

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Reguards,

Ken H

The down side to this method is no soundhole. Yes there is a side port but that only benefits the player.

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Guitars, guitars and more guitars.

Hmmmmmmmm...



-Dennis

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

But, if you're going to use suspended bracing, why not go all the way and allow the shear force of the strings to utilize the structural bracing to its best advantage. (Plus, have some fun coming up with a new bracing scheme.)



Dennis

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

Mark, I did see one in person at Dallas Guitar Show this summer. But we were kind of in a hurry so we boogied and missed a great opportunity to see it first hand. Shucks.

Dennis, wow, what an innovative bracing scheme. Did it work? Bridge too, wow.

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

[quote=FishtownMike]The down side to this method is no soundhole. Yes there is a side port but that only benefits the player.[/quote]

    Believe me Mike, if Hesh plays that guitar, everybody benefits! You don't even want to know what that "Smoke on the Water" is!

    I think the Solitaire is made to be played alone! Vis-a-vis Solitaire. The other series have standard soundholes.

    You know, the more and more I hear of some of these "new" innovations, the more skeptical I am of benefit in sound and the more I fear the Gitchie Factor (GF)!

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Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)

I have no idea whether this has any merit or not, but to piggyback on Billy's comment, my Dad would always say, when he saw something like this, "I guess you gotta have a gimmick."

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"Building guitars looks hard, but it's actually much harder than it looks." Tom Buck

Steve, on the same theme:

Lance and I were talking a couple of days ago because it seems like some people are often trying to create a patented niche on the market - whether it be aluminum bracing or "true temperment".  I cannot say whether these things work or note, because I have not personally experienced them or quantified them, but it certainly does lose something of the beauty and antiquity of a handmade guitar...

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www.ziegenfussguitars.com

[QUOTE=Bruce Dickey]Dennis, wow, what an innovative bracing scheme. Did it work? Bridge too, wow.[/QUOTE]
Thanks, Bruce. I really thought the whole system was innovative, and only learned of the Ned Steinberger/Steve Grimes "stress-free bridge" patent, as well as the *Tilton Improvement* guitar after I designed and built this one. Unless someone knows about a guitar with a bracing pattern similar to my "Pivoting Radial" design, maybe there was one innovative idea in my guitar after all.

It wasn't attempted as a gimmick, or just to be different; it was my first attempt at eliminating the X-brace, handling the string forces other than ending at the bridge, and trying to find a bracing pattern that permits the top to move in a more *natural* way.

"Did it work?"
Well, that depends on who you talk to. According to William Cumpiano, this un-guitar (actually, he called it a "musical sculpture" and "the thing") has no redeeming qualities whatsoever, lacks bass, and its overall volume and timbre are best described with the punchline to the old musician's joke: "...far far away." Every other player and luthier that has played and examined it seem to feel otherwise. In my opinion, it was a huge success as a prototype, and is quite playable. To my ear (echoed by all but one), the bass and mid bass volume, definition, and sustain are remarkable. From the mids to trebles, I think it is just average, but not lacking. Overall, very good volume, remarkable sustain, pleasant timbre. Not among the greatest guitars, but I feel it is a very successful self-engineered prototype, and not a bad first attempt at a guitar. Hopefully sometime we'll cross paths, and you can play it (and/or some of its successors) and you can tell me it you think it works.

A sound clip (song intro) with flat EQ, and a crappy player (me):
Too Many Bushes Not Enough Trees


Dennis

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

[QUOTE=DennisLeahy] I really thought the whole system was innovative, and only learned of the Ned Steinberger/Steve Grimes "stress-free bridge" patent, as well as the *Tilton Improvement* guitar after I designed and built this one. Unless someone knows about a guitar with a bracing pattern similar to my "Pivoting Radial" design, maybe there was one innovative idea in my guitar after all.
[/QUOTE]

Dennis,

There is this interesting guitar built recently by the French builder Pierre Lamour and posted on the MIMF:





It uses a similar tailpiece and tunnel bridge and the bracing is similar'ish. He described it to me as a "kasha" type bracing. He loved the sound it produced.

Interesting stuff.

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

These appear to me to some type of Kasha derivative, Steve Klien's bracing I believe is similar.

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

Sacrebleu! Pepe Le Peu! Le French builder Pierre Lamour has stolen my idea! (Did he steal it first or second?)


Here's a Klein take on Kasha bracing:

I have never had the chance to examine one, or even to see the bracing from various angles, but is it true that there are struts that sort of tie the bridge plate to the sides? If so, that seems counterintuitive to me (but maybe was in defense of the torque from stopping the strings at the bridge?)

I used a single transverse brace beneath the saddle, flanked by a pair of half canoe shaped bridge plates, beneath a skinny canoe shaped bridge. I wanted the bridge to be able to rock fore and aft ("long dipole"?) easily. The radial braces were meant to quickly spread the vibrations across the top. I did see and was influenced by A J Lucas' radial design before I built mine.

Mr. Lamour seems to have adopted the quasi-hourglass shaped bridge plate (possibly laminated?) that Kasha used, which would seem to inhibit some of the pivoting/rocking motion, but does look kinda sorta "pivoting radial." I just took a minute to peruse Mr. Lamour's site - sort of Fred Carlson meets Linda Manzer - and I saw and heard some very impressive creations. I don't think he needs to steal from anyone.

Dennis

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

I think you should keep experimenting with it, if that's where your hearts at. Try not to be too discouraged with Mr. Cumpiano's comments, unless of course you were trying for a standard guitar.

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

The final arbiters of any of these designs are consumers. They either buy them in sufficient quantities to put you seriously in back order or they don't. I don't know anybody building Kasha-style instruments who is making a living at it, and that includes the two Steves Klein and Kaufman. Grimes hardly builds his "tunneled brige" Steinberger collaborations since the demand for his Keola Beamer guitars is so good.

By all means build this stuff, though, and experiment. Just be aware of how this has all gone to date...and why...

Another fellow who uses Kasha style bracing is one of my favourites, Boaz Elkayam

Nice Clip Dennis, and you aren't too shabby a player. At least you play.

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