Official Luthiers Forum!

Hello All! It's funny how such little things can make us react. Mr. Klepper
has his kerfing thing...I have my volute thing. Check this out:   "A volute
is a spiral scroll-like ornament that forms the basis of the Ionic order,
found in the capital of the Ionic column. The word derives from the Latin
voluta ("scroll"). It has been suggested that the ornament was inspired by
the curve of a ram's horns, or perhaps was derived from the natural spiral
of the ovule of a common species of clover native to Greece. Alternatively,
it may simply be of geometrical origins". Thats from wikipedia. And we
all know that what wiki says is the final word. A guitarmaker who(m) I
really respect, and who has helped me out by answering several of my
questions says that "guitarmakers call it a volute". Well Mr. Swanson, I
hearby declare myself the President of the Anti volute "chin" calling
society. (huh?)                    
A chin is a chin, a volute is...well...not a chin! So what do you say my
friends? From now on it's "Chin"? Or "Dart" if that's the case. Leave the
volute to the architects!

Just in case you wondered what the heck I was rambling about!

The borders and goal posts keep moving in the word game, and you can't stop that motion. Language must stay dynamic or die. If a fair number of luthiers and players understand that part of the upper hand stop area of the neck to be a volute, then a volute it is.   The word has taken on new meaning. What's wrong with that?

Etymology is the study of the origin and development of the meanings of words.   Note that word "development". So from Ionic columns (Greek) to a word based in Latin to a guitar neck...a somewhat logical progression.   

And here's another definition:
http://www.animatedsoftware.com/pumpglos/volute.htm

And a bit further afield:
http://www.volutecorsets.com/summary.php

So it's the sensuous line that seems to be the defining issue...

Don't get me started on semantics.    Just so I don't offend
you I'll use kerfing for my argument, since I haven't seen Howard
around lately.

I know kerfing should be a verb, but I really don't care much. It's been
misused long enough by so many folks in our trade that I think it fair to
argue that we have beaten correct english in to submission. Words like
this creep in from a few factory workers out of convenience, spread to
other shops through distributors, employees, designers, and become
fairly common. Next thing you know some guitar maker writes a book or
company starts selling guitar parts to the general public, and what to you
think they call it? They call it kerfing, just like they've always heard. At
that point it's all over. Next thing you know, a new word is born. Born out
of ignorance and bastardization, yes, but born none the less.

No, it hasn't made it in to the OED yet, but I don't think it's a high
priority. Neither has lutherie/luthiery, but we won't go there. If it were a
new computer term that had come to common usage in a similar fashion
it would certainly be in, or at least on it's way by now. Volute follows the
same rules in my book, though not really as heinous a violation of our
rules of english as kerfing had to go through. They're all trade-specific
terms, so they're meaning to the general public should have little bearing
in my opinion. If our terms were held to that criteria we'd be really
screwed. Nuts, bridges, heels, saddles, - saddle is one that would even
confuse the heck out of a violin maker if they didn't know guitars.

Volute, kerfing. As long as you know exactly what I mean when I say it,
it's all fine with me.

Years back I had a serious head injury and lost a part of the Broca's area
of my brain. I lost the ability to speak or communicate in all but the most
basic means, though I feel very fortunate to have been able to recover as
quickly as I did, and spent some time basically relearning english. It may
sound arrogant, but having experienced this I feel I have earned the right
to claim a certain appreciation of language and it's functions that few can
realize. I certainly appreciate the elegance and power that good
intentional usage of language and vocabulary can contain. These words in
particular just don't offend me though.
















Volute


Volute

_________________
Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

Yep, a section of a volute. Sounds good to me.

_________________
Horton, MI

[QUOTE=ToddStock] [/QUOTE]

Todd,

Yes, that's definitely on it's way to being a tomatoe - some say tomato . . . but wrongly

_________________
Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

Didn't some president or vice president erroneously correct a child's spelling of potato?

Very interesting Tommy - I did not know the origin of this term.

I volute you for educating us.

I love all the different terms for the parts of a guitar. Many are borrowed from violin components but other come from human body parts. They are a mish-mash of terms and the ones commonly used are not consistent.

I've heard of the tail of the guitar being called the bottom. When means that the top of a guitar is at a 90 degree angle from the bottom. The back seems to always be called the back but the top may sometimes be called the front.

The sides may also be called the ribs or the rims.

Sometimes specific types of a component will become the name for that component. I've actually heard the following: "I like to use solid kerfing on the tops of my guitars". and "I'm putting snowflake position dots on this guitar". Although I chuckle inwardly when I hear these, I do understand what the speaker means and let it pass.

One of my favorite guitar terms is tuner.
"Back stage, the tuner used an electronic tuner while adjusting the tuner".

OK here is some salt for the wound. The blending of 2 or more radial shapes really should be called "Fillet"

Now I going for a coke and popcorn!

Alright Rick and Todd, you guys have convinced me! I now declare myself
the president of the Anti chin volute calling society!

So, now, what do we call this?



"Pointy, non-curvy, pseudo volute"

_________________
Horton, MI

That's "the hair on my chinny chin chin." 

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Well depending on what industry terminology you prefer this is still a fillet (Fillet: to blend two or more non planer surfaces). But in the guitar industry it is refered to as a diamond valute.

The real question is, when it is all boiled down to the core issue: "What is the issue anyway?"

No issue. Just fun. In my twisted mind anyway.

I'd be more interested in knowing why someone would put the tuners on upside down?

_________________
A higher purpose for wood.
Rich Smith
Issaquah, WA

In New England, it's "Tu-may-tuh".

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Are we supposed to guess on Kirt's pic above?

It's a Collings if I've ever seen one.

_________________
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100008907949110

Ok, here's another issue:

Is it Vol-oot' or Vol'-yewt ?

And, it's not exactly a diamond shape is it?

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

It's more of a B1-B Stealth shape if you ask me.

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

That's a Martin.

Maybe the first one could be a venician volute and the second a florentine volute.

Ok, I'm outa here before the conversation gets volute-tile....

_________________
Horton, MI

Over at Santa Cruz Guitars they call it the "dart".

I'd be more interested in knowing why someone would put the tuners on upside down?

That's something I've seen a lot of lately, in photos of other's works. Why? I sure want to know, why?

It's a nightmare to a player to reach for a tuning peg and it turns in reverse from what you're used to. Arghhhh! Do we not play what we build?!?

As to the pedantry of  naming issues.... I stand aside, watch and chuckle. As one who is still learning this English language, it's quite amusing.

I fired up the barby. Where is the guy with the fillet?

_________________
"It's a Tone Faerie thing"
"Da goal is to sharpen ur wit as well as ye Sgian Dubh"
"Sippin Loch Dhu @Black lake" ,Kirby O...

Ahhh, but some of those have the gears reversed, so the direction you turn is normal even though the barrel/gear to post/worm is not "normal".    Many vintage instruments are done backwards...for instance, check out old Gibson mandolins...gear above worm...and yes, the string pull tends to disengage the gear from the worm.   Also there are early Fender basses that are all bass-ackwards...

This is a perfect example of the tradition of screwed up-ness.