Official Luthiers Forum!

Okay, thanks for the input guys. The reason for my question was two-fold. First to bring the safety aspect to the surface, second, to find out if it was smoke, due to rapid oxidation which could reslt in a fire. Sounds like we should assume that it is unless proven otherwise.

As an interesting side note. I worked for Eastman Chemical (think Kodak) here in East Tennessee for many years. Eastman invented superglue - I think it was back in the 60's. The fellow who invented it and still holds the patent is still living here in Kingsport TN.

All the best!

CA fumes are not toxic, They are very nauseous and extremely irritating to mucus membranes but are not chemically toxic. Now some manufacturers may add slowing agents that may be toxic but cyanoacrylate nor its fumes are not.

There is a major difference in an irritant and a toxin

Here is a typical Cyanoacrylate MSDS. Notice Toxic is nowhere to be found.

MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET         & nbsp;         & nbsp;         & nbsp;         & nbsp;         & nbsp;         & nbsp;    DATE: 02/18/05
                                                                                                              Revision #5   Page 1 of 2
Section 1                                          HAZARD RATING             For Chemical Emergency Only:
PACER TECHNOLOGY                                                          In the US & Canada        (800) 424-9300
9420 Santa Anita Avenue                                  2        Int'l & Wash DC (COLLECT) (703) 527-3887
Rancho Cucamonga, CA 91730                   1 x 1        Telephone for Information:(909) 987-0550

PRODUCT IDENTIFICATION: E-5

Section 2 - HAZARDOUS INGREDIENTS INFORMATION:

Hazardous Components                                  OSHA           ACGIH            OTHER                   %
(Common Names, CAS Number)                     PEL             TLV    &nb sp;        LIMITS             OPTION
Ethyl-2-Cyanoacrylate      (70 85-85-0)            NE    &nbs p;        NE    &nbs p;       0.2ppm TWA         &nb sp;60-100
Hydroquinone*         ;      (123-31-9)            2mg/m3      2mg/m3                                         0-1

*This ingredient is subject to the reporting requirements of Section 313 of Title III of the Superfund Amendments & Reauthorization Act of 1986 (SARA) and 40 CFR 372.

Section 3 - PHYSICAL/CHEMICAL CHARACTERISTICS:

Boiling Point:                    365 F                     Specific Gravity (H2O=1):                   1.05
Vapor Density (Air=1):          nil-NE                        Melting Point:                                      NE
Vapor Pressure (mm Hg): 1 @ 20 C                     Evaporation Rate (Butyl acetate=1):     nil-NE
Solubility in Water: Insoluble, material reacts to hardened mass for non-hazardous waste.
Appearance & Odor: Transparent water-white to straw colored liquid with stimulative odor.

Section 4 - FIRE AND EXPLOSION HAZARD DATA:

Flash Point (Method Used): 185 F (TCC)            Flammable Limits:    LEL: NE      UEL: NE
Extinguishing Media: Flush with large amounts of water or dry chemical extinguisher.
Special Fire Fighting Procedures: Fumes may be irritating if not burning and require air supply with goggles while applying large amounts of water or dry chemical extinguisher.
Unusual Fire and Explosion Hazards: None. Combustible requiring the above procedures.

Section 5 - REACTIVITY DATA:

Stability: Stable XX   Conditions to Avoid: Excessive heat above 176 F, moisture and alkalines. Stable up to 122 F. Store in a cool dry place.
Incompatibility (Materials to Avoid): Polymerized by water, alcohol, amines, alkaline materials and direct UV.
Hazardous Decomposition Products: Combustible by-products of carbon monoxide/dioxide.
Hazardous Polymerization: May Not Occur XX

Section 6 - HEALTH HAZARD DATA:

Route(s) of Entry: Inhalation: Yes         &nb sp;Skin: NO                  Ingestion: LD50 = 12.2cc/kg
Health Hazards (Acute and Chronic):                                                                        (mice)
MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET           E-5                     Revision #5   Page 2 of 2
Acute - Irritates eyes, mucous membranes.
Chronic - No residual effects of acute properties.
Carcinogenicity:     NTP: No      IARC Monographs: No      OSHA Regulated: No
Signs and Symptoms of Exposure & First Aid Procedures:
Eye contact - Tearing from eye irritation. Remove to fresh air. Flush areas of contact with water. Adhesive will disassociate from eye/eyelids over time, usually within several hours. Temporary weeping of eyes/double vision may be experienced until clearance is achieved.
Skin contact - Immerse bonded areas in warm, soapy water. Peel or roll skin apart. Remove cured adhesive with several applications of warm, soapy water. Prolonged or repeated contact at elevated levels may cause dermatitis in sensitive individuals.
Inhalation - Irritation of mucous membranes/coughing. Remove to fresh air. Prolonged or repeated exposure at elevated levels may produce allergic reactions with asthma-like symptoms in sensitive individuals.
Ingestion - Lips may become stuck together: apply copious amounts of warm water & encourage wetting/pressure from saliva inside mouth. Peel or roll (do not pull) lips apart. It is almost impossible to swallow cyanoacrylate as adhesive solidifies upon contact with saliva & may adhere to inside of mouth. Saliva will lift adhesive in 1-2 days, avoid swallowing adhesive after detachment.
Medical Conditions Generally Aggravated by Exposure: Pre-existing skin, eye and respiratory disorders may be aggravated by exposure.

Section 7 - PRECAUTIONS FOR SAFE HANDLING AND USE:
Steps to Be Taken in Case Material is Released or Spilled: Polymerize with water. Solid material may be scraped from surface.
Waste Disposal Method: Incinerate solid combustible waste or dump as chemical waste according to local, state and federal regulations.
Precautions to Be Taken in Handling and Storing: Avoid contact with clothing as contact can cause burn. Avoid moisture, direct UV-sunlight and do not store above 25 C. Keep containers closed tightly when not in use. Ideal storage: 5-10 C.
Other Precautions: Avoid breathing vapor, contact with eyes/skin. Allow product to reach room temperature before use.

Section 8 - CONTROL MEASURES:
Respiratory Protection (Specify Type): A NIOSH-approved organic vapor canister may be used to maintain vapor concentration below TLV.
Ventilation: Local Exhaust: To maintain vapor concentration below TLV.
              Mechanical (General): Large amounts used to 0.2ppm.
Protective Clothing or Equipment: Safety glasses with side shield, Vinyl (polyethylene) non-sticking gloves, rubber apron to protect clothing.
Work/Hygienic Practices: Soap and water helps remove adhesive from skin.

NE = Not established

The data contained herein is based upon information that Pacer Technology believes to be reliable. Users of this product have the responsibility to determine the suitability of use and to adopt all necessary precautions to ensure the safety and protection of property and persons involved in said use. All statements or suggestions are made without warranty, express or implied, regarding accuracy of the information, the hazards connected with the use of the material or the results to be obtained from the use thereof.

[QUOTE=Hesh]And like Bob mentioned you will not find any 100 year old instruments still in tact made from CA........
[/QUOTE]

...that would be hard since it was invented in the 1940's and wasn't really publicized till the late 50's....

Still, I don't think I'm brave enough to try it!

_________________
http://www.PeakeGuitars.com

[QUOTE=Hesh] I use paper towels with say naphtha and when finished I tear up the wet paper towels and feed them in reasonable quantities right into the toilet......
[/QUOTE]

Petroleum distillates in the toilet???   

_________________
Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

[QUOTE=Todd Rose] [QUOTE=Hesh] I use paper towels with say naphtha and when finished I tear up the wet paper towels and feed them in reasonable quantities right into the toilet......

[/QUOTE]



Petroleum distillates in the toilet???    [/QUOTE]

Yeah I know Todd and you are making a good point here.  Maybe you can help me out with what I should be doing?  I recently read that prescription drugs, when no longer in the date code range, should not be flushed either.  I guess some towns found traces of Prozac and Viagra in the water supplies and had to increase the public schools budget as a result.

But seriously I try not to have anything flammable in my trash.  My other trash can is in my garage and in the summer it gets to be over 100 F in there.

So how do I properly and "greenly" dispose of say paper towels that were used for solvents?

Thanks

At Galloup school some students had a great time putting CA on paper and particularly airplane and have them burn. Put on a bunch and could do same to various woods, spruce being the best, Never seen it catch fire, but touch it with bare finger and like sticking it in a flame.

[quote]And like Bob mentioned you will not find any 100 year old instruments still in tact made from CA........[/quote]

Sure you will! 40 years from now!

_________________
Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)

[QUOTE=Billy T] [quote]And like Bob mentioned you will not find any 100 year old instruments still in tact made from CA........[/quote]

Sure you will! 40 years from now! [/QUOTE]

maybe it's like CNC...if they had it, they would have used it..?

_________________
http://www.PeakeGuitars.com

[QUOTE=Jamie M] Superglue is toxic and hazardous to your health.    [/QUOTE] Jamie,
That's just not true.
If you think it is, do you have any data to back it up?
MP posted the MSDS that shows that it is not toxic or hazardous.

_________________
"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

Steve...sadly no, I was going off what I was told... After reading Michael's
post I have decided I'm going to call up my buddy who said it was toxic and
find out more. Otherwise, I have to eat my words and agree that I was
wrong.

Jamie

I can tell you now that if there was any toxicity to it that it we show as TOXIC on the MSDS eve if large volume ingestion is required to cause poisoning.

Like I said the fumes are an irritant but neither the compound or the reactive fumes are toxic.

Mp

I can tell you now that if there was any toxicity to it that it would show as TOXIC on the MSDS eve if large volume ingestion is required to cause poisoning.

Like I said the fumes are an irritant but neither the compound or the reactive fumes are toxic.

[QUOTE=Hesh]
Maybe you can help me out with what I should be doing? I recently read that prescription drugs, when no longer in the date code range, should not be flushed either. I guess some towns found traces of Prozac and Viagra in the water supplies and had to increase the public schools budget as a result.But seriously I try not to have anything flammable in my trash. My other trash can is in my garage and in the summer it gets to be over 100 F in there.So how do I properly and "greenly" dispose of say paper towels that were used for solvents?Thanks[/QUOTE]

Admittedly, the amount you've been putting down the toilet is a drop in the bucket compared to all the stuff that gets washed off streets and parking lots by rain and goes directly into rivers via storm sewers, not to mention all the other petroleum based pollutants that are released into the earth's waters in lots of other ways. Still, it's kind of a pet peeve of mine that a lot of people still think that you can just dump stuff down the drain and it goes "away" - but I don't mean to imply that that is your thinking or attitude. Anyway, I'm not really an expert on the subject, but, as far as I know, putting hazardous waste products like solvents down the drain is about the worst thing you can do with them. Much better to let them evaporate, which most solvents will do pretty quickly. Personally, I don't worry much about throwing paper towels in the trash, because they sit loosely on top of the trash in the open can in my shop, allowing the solvent to evaporate out (of course, my shop is ventilated anytime I'm using hazardous stuff) before they're going to cause any trouble.*

The best thing we can do is minimize our use of hazardous stuff. For example, I use drinkable grain alcohol wherever possible in my shop, e.g. as a general solvent/cleaner, rather than mineral spirits or other stuff.

This should be another thread... it would probably be a good idea for us to have a little "teach-in" here about proper handling of hazardous materials.

*Oil-soaked rags - anything that will produce heat as it cures/dries - are another story. Those must be hung out to dry before being put in the trash. Along those lines, it makes sense to be careful with CA glue, though its heat is quick to come and go.

_________________
Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

Section 7 - PRECAUTIONS FOR SAFE HANDLING AND USE:
Steps to Be Taken in Case Material is Released or Spilled: Polymerize with water. Solid material may be scraped from surface.
Waste Disposal Method: Incinerate solid combustible waste or dump as chemical waste according to local, state and federal regulations.
Precautions to Be Taken in Handling and Storing: Avoid contact with clothing as contact can cause burn. Avoid moisture, direct UV-sunlight and do not store above 25 C. Keep containers closed tightly when not in use. Ideal storage: 5-10 C.
Other Precautions: Avoid breathing vapor, contact with eyes/skin. Allow product to reach room temperature before use.

[QUOTE=Jamie M] .......I have decided I'm going to call up my buddy who said it was toxic and find out more. .....

Jamie[/QUOTE] Jamie,
There are a lot of misconceptions about CA. Even if you call your budy and he says it is toxic and hazardous, be assured that he is wrong. You can trust the MSDS.

_________________
"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

I take my solvent soaked rags and toss em on the concrete floor in my wood room (separate from the shop). This keeps all the fumes out of my shop. Then I pick em up a day or so later when all is evaporated and throw in the trash.

Might not work for neatness freaks though.

_________________
Horton, MI

I have a fire safe (metal with a seal-able lid oil rag can and an one for paper towels. ChemSafe comes by every week to dispose of all my hazardous material waste. It cost me $30 a month.

I should have said I do not use them to dispose of any CA waist though.

Todd R. I greatly appreciate your thoughtful post and you did give me some ideas of alternatives to flushing paper towels soaked in solvents.  Although my shop is not ventilated since it is a room in my condo and I am reluctant to open the window and mess with my 45% RH I could do this:  Place my dirty paper towels in an open trash basket on my screened in deck for a few days until they evaporate and then just pitch them.

Regarding CA again in the radio control model airplane world there is often talk of the CA blues.  In as much as CA is an irritant some people, when exposed to CA in greater quantities or over prolonged periods of time experience feelings of depression.  Much has been written about this on the RC forums. 

[QUOTE=Hesh] Regarding CA again in the radio control model airplane
world there is often talk of the CA blues.E In as much as CA is an irritant
some people, when exposed to CA in greater quantities or over prolonged
periods of time experience feelings of depression.E Much has been written
about this on the RC forums.E
[/QUOTE]

Maybe this is really just attributable to being a model airplane builder.
   Just joking, Hesh. That's very interesting. Do you happen to have
a link to any such discussions?

_________________
Mike

"The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shoosh." The Stranger

Mike I will look for one.  Your right though that RC fliers are already prone to depression when those nasty trees (that we builders love) tend to jump right out in front of your plane while it's in flight........

This link does not expand on the CA blues but mentions it if you scroll down and read it.

For some reason I can't post links so here is the URL:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3819/is_200006/ai_n8 902528

Thanks Hesh.

_________________
Mike

"The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shoosh." The Stranger