Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Sat Nov 23, 2024 9:31 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:26 am 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 13386
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
City: Ann Arbor
State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
Lance and Brock I wanted to apologize to you both AND everyone else too.

Yesterday morning I emailed you both, politely, and requested that you delete my account.  That was followed by your deletion of my account.

I know you both personally, Lance much better, we have been to each others homes, interacted with each other's family's, and I have always have a very high regard for Lance and more recently Brock.

When I asked you to delete my account it was not unlike a suicide threat and the sincere, I repeat sincere hope was that you would try to talk me off the ledge. 

I frequently get contacted by OLFers who have a beef and for some reason I seem to be thought of by some as a mom sort......   Many people contact me with their beefs nearly every day.  Please try to understand that this can impact one's outlook and cumulatively be harmful to me too over time.   I always contact you guys and let you know what the beef is and i request guidance from you.  In all cases you have never told me to just let the person leave.  So I try to talk them off the ledge....... and ask them to stay.  What else can I do and continue to live with myself?

My polite discussions with first you Lance and then Brock regarding the enforcement of the code of conduct was in fact on your behalf.  You don't have to be Einstein to recognize that if you guys put this code of conduct in place that supporting the code of conduct, even defending it as it is written, is in fact a defense of what we know, in writing, to be your stated wishes.  The conversation never deteriorated on any of the parts of the three of us.  Kudos to you guys.

When I requested that you delete my account it was a cry for help from me to you.  Two guys that I thought were my friends and although I have a history of supporting the OLF I do understand and acknowledge that my own behavior sucked at times, perhaps very often.

In the past people who have left have received emails from me asking them to return and yes this included Mario as well, Bruce Dicky, and many others.  Serge leaving really, really hurt me on a highly personal level - but I stayed, called for calm, and tried to help the OLF.

I supported the forum, was a cheerleader (Billy let that one go please) and believed that I was helping you guys to build a very successful business.  You asked me almost a year ago to be a moderator and I declined because I do not trust my own judgment.  How many folks would admit to this?  As for how many folks would admit that they do not trust my, Hesh's judgment I am sure that list would be pretty long.........

I did not wish to leave.  I repeat - I did not wish to leave.  What I hoped would happen is an email from either of you attempting to talk me off my ledge.  I made no threats in my request to delete my account and was a polite as one could be with an uncharacteristic use for me of minimal words.

What followed was that you deleted my account, did not contact me, never tried to talk me off the ledge or expressed that you would like me to stay.  Even if you had written back to me indicating that I am wrapped to tight, get upset to often, need to chill out and if I can do all of this including staying out of trouble you would be happy to have me back - I would have complied.  I received no warnings and as fast as the bits and bytes permitted I was deleted.

Nearly 8,000 posts, a complete sharing of all I learned, over 3,000 photos, tutorials, contributions financially to every endeavor the OLF participated in, and many posts in recognition of you both, thanks to you often, and support of you and the OLF when in crisis, wiped away with a single click.

I am sick, live alone, cannot work, and you guys both knew this in as much as we have contact often off the OLF.

My hope was that you would slap me up side the head, give me some guidelines for if I was to participate in the future, and show me in some small way that you valued me as a person and as a participant who many times helped the OLF provide real value.

Moving on - I recognize that times change but sometimes like many of us I need to be told that times change, what the new objectives are, and offered an opportunity to participate in the evolution of the OLF.  I was simply defending the code of conduct and if you really think about it guys this was and is indeed a defense of you since you wrote it.

I would like to be back and offer this going forward:  I will not start conflict, if conflict finds me I will back away at once and no longer participate in the topic.  When things start to get out of hand Hesh will no longer weigh in with what I believe.

As for posts that lack substance I fully expect to encourage people with when they display a guitar that they have just completed.  I will share what I learn, show what I do, welcome people, engage in respectful banter with people like Waddy, and again enjoy what has become pretty much the only family that I have/had.

I offer an apology to you and all.

Thank You.



Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:52 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:21 am
Posts: 2924
Location: Changes when ever I move..Australia
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Welcome to the OLF Hesh

We once had a guy here who had the very same name as you. He was one of the most helpful, intelligent and skilled luthiers on this list and I am lucky enough to still call him my friend (even though he did sell MY nut file to Tony Karol at the OLF swapmeet).

That's the best thing about the OLF, you have the opportunity to learn from some very skilled people and sometimes they can become your good mate as well

You have mighty big shoes to fill there young Hesh, may you be half the value to this forum that the old Hesh was.

Cheers

Kim


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:02 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:04 am
Posts: 2060
I'm glad you're still here Hesh - Heaven forbid I would have to start
driving two or three miles to meet up and keep in touch once in a while.


The very act of me writing this is going to be a bit hypocritical, but here
goes anyway. It takes a good deal of restraint, but being selective in
topics read and participated in can help a great deal in avoiding stress
here. It can be very difficult to bite my tongue when I read things that
may disagree with professionally, or bother me personally, but if a topic
seems heated I simply do not post. Actually once it reaches a point I no
longer click on it or read anymore. When a topic comes up about
apologies or commentary on recent strife, I typically find myself in a
"what did I miss" position, having never read or known anything was
going on. Actually, it's usually simply the length of some posts that tip
me off to stay away.

In extreme cases I've been known (or unknown I suppose) to type a long
rant or reply, then having vented I reread it, decide if it contributes
anything or antagonizes, then simply delete without posting, feeling
somewhat relieved. Cheap way out perhaps, but better to me than
engaging in a non-productive debate or conflict.

Punching bags or a nearby batting cage can help too. Ann Arbor sucks
for not having any batting cages.

_________________
Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:29 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:05 am
Posts: 9191
Location: United States
First name: Waddy
Last Name: Thomson
City: Charlotte
State: NC
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Man, you got me worried now!  I'm gonna have to come up with some respectful banter.  I'll look it up, and get back to you on that.

Welcome to the OLF, Hesh!  We are a sharing community of learners, at every level of the scale, from beginners, to people who actually know some stuff.  It is a fun place to hang out.


_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:11 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:35 pm
Posts: 1021
Location: United States
Welcome back!!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:16 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 5:02 am
Posts: 8551
Location: United States
First name: Lance
Last Name: Kragenbrink
City: Vandercook Lake
State: Michigan
Zip/Postal Code: 49203
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Hesh, we apologize for honoring your request.

We cannot reassociate you with your old username, as this is just not possible.
Welcome back, and I am glad to hear of your new position on participating in conflicts. I hope that more people will take that position as well.

Also, due to the volatile nature of this topic and all of the recent conflict, I am going to close this thread and put it in the off topics section.

Thanks.

_________________
Support the OLF! Bookmark our STEWMAC link Today!
Lance@LuthiersForum.com


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 34 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com