Official Luthiers Forum!

Hey Bill, I'm in El Dorado Hills also, at least this week I am. I am doing a temporary stink at my old workplace but I reside in Cool, Ca. Just up Salmon Falls road to highway 49 and north a bit to Cool.

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

John, that makes total sense to me. Thanks.

[QUOTE=Mike Mahar]I have heard, second hand, that Serge de Jonge doesn't care about lateral stiffness and just adjusts the X brace out wider if the top is too floppy. You might want to splay the X brace out a little bit to compensate.
[/QUOTE]
I attended his presentation last summer at the Montreal show.
What he said then is that perfectly 1/4 cut tops are stiff and silky.
10 degree off and they are floppy
Between 5-10% they are less prone to cracking and preferred.
I noted he said they are OK to use up to 10-12 deg off quarter.

[QUOTE=Mike Mahar]

I have heard, second hand, that Serge de Jonge doesn't care about lateral stiffness and just adjusts the X brace out wider if the top is too floppy.
[/QUOTE]
Mike-
I took Sergei's course last spring, and I recall him saying that it was the longitudinal stiffness that was more important, both mechanically and tonally; most beginners check only the lateral stiffness and don't pay much attention to the more important longitudinal qualities. I don't think he said that he didn't care about lateral stiffness, just that it was secondary in importance to longitudinal stiffness. He also mentioned that the bracing pattern used can have a lot to do with how the top will behave mechanically over the life of the guitar- for example, he said that lots of fan-braced classicals he'd seen had some 'bellying' between the braces. So, if you had a top that was less stiff than average laterally , it would be a candidate for lattice bracing, or changes to the 'X' if it was a more traditional steel-string bracing pattern.

This is all just recollection (I didn't get everything into the notebook...) and I may be unintentionally distorting what Sergei said.
It all did seem to make perfect sense to me, though- then and now.
Sergei's approach seemed very down-to-earth to me, and he's certainly figured out some things, because his guitars sound (and look) good!

Cheers
John

Chewy, it's OK to use decent grammar here. You don't have to use pop text messaging style to get your questions posted and read here, and you'll probably be taken more seriously if you don't use such faddish shortcuts a "u" for you. Apostrophes, commas, and capital letters are all useful for getting ideas across, too. Call me prejudiced if you like, but I simply turn off when people resort to lowest-common denominator-style use of the English language. But then I also automatically deduct 30 IQ points from anyone I see with a baseball hat on sideways...

 i didnt realize this was the olef. if u dont like the way i type then dont answer me

 i would hope u are above that though

 educated and all

[QUOTE=Rick Turner] Chewy, it's OK to use decent grammar here. You don't have to use pop text messaging style... [/QUOTE]
Rick-
Mark this down in the history book- I agree with you 100% on this!

John

[QUOTE=Rick Turner] Chewy, it's OK to use decent grammar here. You don't have to use pop text messaging style to get your questions posted and read here, and you'll probably be taken more seriously if you don't use such faddish shortcuts a "u" for you. Apostrophes, commas, and capital letters are all useful for getting ideas across, too. Call me prejudiced if you like, but I simply turn off when people resort to lowest-common denominator-style use of the English language. But then I also automatically deduct 30 IQ points from anyone I see with a baseball hat on sideways...[/QUOTE]

Here I go again agreeing with Rick! The English language took thousands of years to develop to its current glorious state. There are a thousand plus members here, none have ever used this lazy writing style. Only 30 points Rick?

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Oh meh akin ed!

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"It's a Tone Faerie thing"
"Da goal is to sharpen ur wit as well as ye Sgian Dubh"
"Sippin Loch Dhu @Black lake" ,Kirby O...

Bill, I'm in Colfax, Hank Mauel is in auburn, Harvey Leach is 10 minutes from me as is michael Lewis.
So you have alot of resources within an hours drive!
Lance

Chewy, when I run across anything written in AOL-speak like that, I have to skip it. It's just un-readable to most of us. Fast readers read-ahead, and we expect things to flow a certain way, but we have to stop to understand what it is you're trying to write when you don't use decent spelling and grammar.

Bottom line, if you ask a question and expect answers, leave the chat room shorthand out of it.

 lmfao

 

 u guys are a tough bunch

 with ur grammer and all

 lmfao

 oh im sorry

 laughing my ****ing ass off

 

  i just watched ur trailor on ur website.

  i completly understand now

Chewy I am screwy once and a while for fun but to much would be annoying. There are some very experienced people here that help our growth as craftsmen(I am still just a bit of a hack). Flipping us all the finger is how I interpret Your remarks is that your intent?
If so I do not see that you will be a positive thing.

ROTFLMAO, doubt you will get much help here so this could likely GOODBYE.

P.S. Counseling?

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"It's a Tone Faerie thing"
"Da goal is to sharpen ur wit as well as ye Sgian Dubh"
"Sippin Loch Dhu @Black lake" ,Kirby O...

[QUOTE=K.O.] Chewy I am screwy once and a while for fun but to much would be annoying. There are some very experienced people here that help our growth as craftsmen(I am still just a bit of a hack). Flipping us all the finger is how I interpret Your remarks is that your intent?
If so I do not see that you will be a positive thing.

ROTFLMAO, doubt you will get much help here so this could likely GOODBYE.

P.S. Counseling?[/QUOTE]

OK, that was funny!

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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

 no good bye from me

 

 the bird was flipped my way first

  If Ricks enitial comment were more P.C., then i would have made a change.  There are other ways to get your point across than to act as if you are better than everyone else.

 I do not challenge Ricks knowledge as a luthier, but dont try to make me look like an idiot because i have bad typing habbits.

 Simply ask me to stop and i will. There is no need for an english lesson.

 

 chewy

I had a teacher that had Ricks manner I figured out that he did I to separate those that think and then respond from those that just respond. I may be guilty of seeing things the way I like to though?

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"It's a Tone Faerie thing"
"Da goal is to sharpen ur wit as well as ye Sgian Dubh"
"Sippin Loch Dhu @Black lake" ,Kirby O...

Can this stay on topic please? If you guys really want to argue about typing preference's do it somewhere else and don't litter a good thread with stupid, non-related crap like this. Take your bit**ing somewhere else for goodness sack.    The only reason I'm bringing it up is because there have been to many good topics which have been shut down recently by the mods'/owners. So I'm asking on behalf of everyone who would agree with me to stay on target. I know I'm not a moderator, but I do find great value in this forum and I want to get the most I can out of it (yes, I'm a subscriber so I'm also trying to get what I've paid for).

Now.......

I'm very interested in learning all I can about top stiffness both longitudinally and latitudinally and what that does for smaller body guitars as well as larger body guitars. Also how the stiffness of a top is related to the total system of the top.

So, with a top like the one bill showed in his link and building a large body guitar, what I've heard folks say is to open up the x-brace a bit and to run the finger braces out to the side more than toward the upper bout. Is this right? I can see how this would stiffen up the top in the lateral direction but what (generally that is) does this do for the general tone of the guitar. So the x-brace opens up a bit more, how does that effect the tone?

Thanks for all the good information so far (but for the typing junk), I'm learning more here everyday.

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Man I just realized I some times wear my hat backwards that would be -60 (lets see fur lil piggy's - ) I am down to 80 or so Ouch!

I wonder If john changes bridge plate thickness also?
Naa probably not.

_________________
"It's a Tone Faerie thing"
"Da goal is to sharpen ur wit as well as ye Sgian Dubh"
"Sippin Loch Dhu @Black lake" ,Kirby O...

Chewy, PM sent...


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